Cyclist accidents v motorcycle accidents

[Pascal]

Every worker, every motorist, every motorcyclist pays into the ACC fund which is the ACC pool for all......heard that argument before?

Maybe there should be one levy per adult person, and not per vehicle. That way, no matter what form of transport you use, you are covered and everybody contributes.

[duckonin]

...Maybe it's time to just accept that roads are just places where risk happens, and as a result, shit happens. If you're prepared to take the risk, be prepared to deal with the shit that comes your way.

What ?

[phill-k]

This thread is an interesting read, the comments regarding the truck, the person who opened the door and the cyclist her self, the apportioning blame but in the end she is dead, lives are effected, her family and friends, the car driver and the Truckee all effected by decisions taken that day.

Personal Responsibility!!

As a cyclist the one big disadvantage you have as apposed to all the other traffic on the road is your inability to ride (mostly) at the same speed as the flowing traffic hence you are a continual hazard to those vehicles following you and then overtaking you.

Cyclists don't by in large have rear view mirrors and often further create hazards such as riding more than single file. To further reduce your awareness by listening to music through headphones to me is stupidity, most of your situational awareness needs to be behind you, your focus needs to more so on the hazards approaching you than the hazards you are approaching.

Unless you were present and witnessed the various killings on our roads these last few days, and I wasn't, none of us has the right to place blame on any one party, as it is unlikely that a single cause is responsible for any of these fatalities.

Likewise in our own riding we consciously or at times with out to much thought place ourselves in the path of danger and possible demise, for some that can be excessive speed for the conditions, a lack of protective clothing, inattention, distraction, and all manner of other things. I ride not to listen to music I can do that at home with a much better sound system than an ipod, I don't have to ride to commute, but generally ride because I wish to ride (in somes eyes not a true biker - who cares). I choose where and when, and don't place external pressures such as time or the lack of in the way. This is my enjoyment but perhaps not yours, but something we must all do to avoid being killed is minimise the risks through situational awareness and personal responsibility.

[wanpo]

I rode a mountain bike to work for a bit when my real bike was in the shop, it definitely feels more dangerous, felt relieved and safe when I had the power back between my legs.

Well in any case...
Wheel all have to be careful
*cue rimshot*

[Genestho]

Maybe it's time to just accept that roads are just places where risk happens, and as a result, shit happens. If you're prepared to take the risk, be prepared to deal with the shit that comes your way.

Yeah good troll, that's the kind of attitude we see people getting themselves or others killed on the roads, isn't it?

[shrub]

Maybe it's time to just accept that roads are just places where risk happens, and as a result, shit happens. If you're prepared to take the risk, be prepared to deal with the shit that comes your way.

That statement is NOT going to make you popular here, but guess what? You're right. Roads are dangerous places and people get killed and hurt on them all the time. It's dangerous to travel at 30m per second in a steel and glass box and it's dangerous to travel at 10 m per second (typical pushbike speed) with no protection at all.

Frankly it's a miracle more people don't die on the roads because they're bloody dangerous, but that won't stop me riding my bikes on them because it's something I love and I not only know the risk but am willing to take that risk. Sure, I mitigate the risk to the best of my ability, but short of riding on closed roads encased in kevlar with a man walking in front of me carrying a red flag there is no way to remove all risk.

[rastuscat]

Tears. Unpopular? The thought terrifies me.

Yeah right. This is a place for espousing ideas and thoughts, and it would be a sad day if we all agreed on everything.

[duckonin]

Roads are not formed just for motorcyclists and vehicle users, others pay their dues to use them also rates ect, when following a vehicle bike or other it is your responsibilty to ensure you give enough room until you can safely pass....Alas most just barge on through..very common today me me me !!!!

[shrub]

"Transport Minister Steven Joyce is considering "regulatory changes" after five cyclists died in five days as a result of accidents on New Zealand roads this week.

Mr Joyce yesterday promised to keep a close watch on inquiries into the cycling fatalities to see what could be done to prevent more deaths.

This morning he told Radio New Zealand he would consider regulatory changes following the "tragic series of accidents".

There would always be roads that were shared between cyclists, pedestrians and motorists, and it was "crucially important" people took care with other road users, particularly vulnerable road users such as cyclists, he said." http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10688641

Interesting. if 5 motorcyclists died in quick succession there would either be a demand to clamp down on motorcycling, checkpoints and a blitz; or a bit of tut tutting and "life goes on".

I'm sick of being a second class road user with even less status than a cyclist, it's not that we're all reckless and incompetent, because we're not - every rider i know is pretty bloody good at what they do, constantly seeks to be better, wears top gear and doesn't ride recklessly. Sure there are idiots out there, but they're in the minority.

i think we're the problem because we're oh so very PC and apologetic about how dangerous motorcycling is and we won't kick up a stink because some motorcycle crashes were the fault of the rider and until every motorcyclist is perfect we won't do a thing to demand changes in riding conditions and behaviour by other road users.

I can just imagine this scene unfolding: "I'm sorry mate, i didn't see you"

"That's OK, it was my fault because I didn't realise you were about to pull out without looking and i should have"

[ukusa]

Our roads can be dangerous - TRUE. Driving a car, riding a bike/motorcycle can be dangerous - also true.
Walking down the fucking street can be dangerous. Hell, everything can be dangerous, but we ain't gonna wrap ourselves in cotton wool, bubble wrap & Kevlar for our entire lives.
What if 5 pedestrians were killed in 5 days, would there be the same enquiries/outrage? Make em all pay ACC, wear helmets while walking, don't walk 2 abreast maybe?

5 cyclists died on the road over 5 days, tragic indeed. It hasn't happened before in recent memory, and it may not ever happen again. The cycling rules haven't changed since they made helmets compulsory back in the early 90's (from memory). No changes in law are going to fix things here. It isn't more dangerous to ride a bike today than it was in the week before the 5 died. I doubt any of the cyclists were hit on purpose, most were probably caused by poor judgement or actions by one or both parties involved.

I think bikers biggest gripe is the ACC thing, we pay, cyclists don't (I'm talking the rego thing here, nothing to do with personal ACC through wages which every worker pays). But I doubt very much that it will change.

[miloking]

Maybe there should be one levy per adult person, and not per vehicle. That way, no matter what form of transport you use, you are covered and everybody contributes.

WHAT? you mean like taking ACC tax from everybodys salary??? That would be AWESOME idea...ohh wait...

We are getting so fucked by ACC and we dont even realize it...

[Pascal]

We are getting so fucked by ACC and we dont even realize it...

Very true. My wife occasionally temps as a stlist for various salons; just doing the odd bit of contracting and her ACC levies are terribad.

[miloking]

I can just imagine this scene unfolding: "I'm sorry mate, i didn't see you"

Hahaha if i had a dollar for every time i heard that....i would like have at least 7 dollars by now! (on a motorcycle)

but funny thing happen to me....

6 weeks ago i got my licence suspended(not DUI or speed related) and ...bought nice racing road bike to do my commute to work without getting arrested and car impounded.

And have learned that cycling is not as much pain as cyclists make it out to be....most drivers are corteous even if I undertake them all the way to the front on the red lights.
Nobody is shouting at me, buses give me lots of room and iam sure iam pretty annoying by blocking whole bus lane....therefore iam not sure what are all the cyclists crying about!

The only annoying thing are people opening their car doors into the road without checking mirrors but in those 4 weeks i have LEARNED that thats the way it is and I just pay attention for it when i see someone sitting in a car....

SO realy WTF are you cyclists doing????... its not that hard you just need to take RESPONSIBILITY for your own safety!


One more thing...i managed to get 66.2Km/h on a downhill on symonds street (my speedo meter has "max speed" memory)...even overtook a cop, just to prove a point i can break that horribly "dangerous" speed limit even on a fucking bycycle!!!!)

[Katman]

Maybe it's time to just accept that roads are just places where risk happens, and as a result, shit happens. If you're prepared to take the risk, be prepared to deal with the shit that comes your way.

The 'shit happens' argument is a cop out (excuse the pun).

If everyone took more effort to try to ensure shit didn't happen we'd be a whole lot better off.

[Genestho]

Frankly it's a miracle more people don't die on the roads because they're bloody dangerous, but that won't stop me riding my bikes on them because it's something I love and I not only know the risk but am willing to take that risk. Sure, I mitigate the risk to the best of my ability, but short of riding on closed roads encased in kevlar with a man walking in front of me carrying a red flag there is no way to remove all risk.

I'm sick of being a second class road user with even less status than a cyclist, it's not that we're all reckless and incompetent, because we're not - every rider i know is pretty bloody good at what they do, constantly seeks to be better, wears top gear and doesn't ride recklessly. Sure there are idiots out there, but they're in the minority.

i think we're the problem because we're oh so very PC and apologetic about how dangerous motorcycling is and we won't kick up a stink because some motorcycle crashes were the fault of the rider and until every motorcyclist is perfect we won't do a thing to demand changes in riding conditions and behaviour by other road users.

I was told after our crash that killed 4 and injured 3, by a cop that this is what happens when you ride bikes - you take that risk and shit happens.
It hadn't for 20 years prior, all risks were pre-empted, avoided or dealt with on our own terms, yup - one day your time is up - kapeesh.

BUT, as far as I'm concerned, that was then - and still is, a shabby, complacent attitude that kills people, it removes a certain sense of personal responsibility.

In saying that, I certainly understand how it must get that way.

I was not prepared to accept that mantra and have kicked up 'quite a stink', haven't been PC much at all.

I know very very few, who would have had the stamina to do so.

I challenge anyone to do the same when it's proven other drivers are at fault.

Don't accept the status quo.