SMIDSY - is there such a thing?

[shrub]

If we start looking at ourselves, change can be effected immediately.

I have been looking at myself (not a pretty thing, believe me) for a long time now, and every motorcyclist I know takes their riding and personal safety very seriously. I'm assuming you and everyone else posting here also does that, so what are we waiting for?

[Katman]

+1. Why should 'we' always be the apologists for car drivers who don't see a reason to be bothered taking more care? Pared down to it's simplest form, we have to take all the responsibility and 'they' don't.

I have this picture in my head of a pouting bottom lip.

What you're actually saying John is "why should we have to change if they don't have to?"

Can you not see how ludicrous that sounds considering our degree of vulnerability?

[Katman]

I have been looking at myself (not a pretty thing, believe me) for a long time now, and every motorcyclist I know takes their riding and personal safety very seriously. I'm assuming you and everyone else posting here also does that, so what are we waiting for?

Clearly they don't take it seriously enough.

If they did there would be far less motorcycle accidents.

[shrub]

Clearly they don't take it seriously enough.

If they did there would be far less motorcycle accidents.

I prefer the word crash because accident suggests a degree of randomness that I am sure you agree is not present.

But none of my friends nore I have had a crash in a long, long time and I am sure you haven't as well, so that combined with the lower crash rate per 10,000 kms travelled suggests we're doing our bit and that if we now demand others play the game we'll see the crash rate drop even further.

Tell me Katman, at what point will we be entitled to demand that other road users lift their game?

[Katman]

Tell me Katman, at what point will we be entitled to demand that other road users lift their game?

I've already said there's nothing wrong with expecting a better effort from other road users.

I'm just after more immediate results.

[Latte]

Tell me Katman, at what point will we be entitled to demand that other road users lift their game?

When we've lifted ours? (In their eyes).

[shrub]

I've already said there's nothing wrong with expecting a better effort from other road users.

I'm just after more immediate results.

Good. Then lift your game, improve your own riding and stop crashing. In exchange I promise to stop crashing myself, so that's 2 of us.

[Eyegasm]

Where can I do a defensive course?

I can not do the Defensive driving course, I don't have a car licence.

I really would love a motorcycle based defensive riding course.
Don't care if it lowers the time on restricted or not. Being able to stop and
avoid potential hazards would be a much greater help.

[shrub]

When we've lifted ours? (In their eyes).

I have no idea how car drivers see my riding, and they probably think I'm crazy riding one of those terrible two wheel death machines when I could be so much safer in a nice, comfy Volvo, and I know of no research being undertaken to measure car driver opinion of motorcycle rider skill level. And that would be of little value because they probably think me using my front brake is foolhardy because everyone knows I'll get thrown over the bars, and counter-steering? What crazy biker idea is this?

[James Deuce]

But yea I have to agree with the OP, how can you not see my bright blue bike with a bright light on the front of it??? If you can't you should not be on the road.

Easy. It's been done over and over. Motion Camouflage. Look it up, understand it.

Human psychology. Do a bit of reading around perceived threat response.

Human neurology. Your brain DOES NOT see everything your eye does. There is a LOT of selective editing that goes on to allow you to concentrate on other survival issues. The more experienced you get the greater the editing and the more sub concious processing goes on. This works two ways. I've pulled into a layby and stopped on the Rimutakas more than once without really knowing why only to have a dirty great truck with house sized pipes and the like on the back, taking up both lanes. I subconciously saw it on the road below me. My brain calculated the likely time to impact and my experience told me to get off the road.

The other way it works is when little Johnny buys a Scorpio and starts riding it to work. Granny who has come out of the same intersection at roughly the same time for 40 years has never seen a motorcycle go past the end of the intersection before and pulls out like she always has. She didn't see little Johnny. Literally.

Understand why SMIDSY happens, take responsibility for not putting yourself in the position of being a SMIDSY victim. You can "market" the "solution" all you want, but the reality is that the target audience doesn't care. They're convinced we're the architects of our (motorcyclists) own demise at many levels.

[shrub]

Where can I do a defensive course?

I can not do the Defensive driving course, I don't have a car licence.

I really would love a motorcycle based defensive riding course.
Don't care if it lowers the time on restricted or not. Being able to stop and
avoid potential hazards would be a much greater help.

Contact MAG-NZ and ask to be referred to a motorcycle trainer

[MSTRS:Me]

I have this picture in my head of a pouting bottom lip.

What you're actually saying John is "why should we have to change if they don't have to?"

Can you not see how ludicrous that sounds considering our degree of vulnerability?

Taken in isolation - yes.
My point is that bikers must take safety seriously, and the more we do this, the less incentive (if you will) there is for the 'other lot' to better their awareness of us.
With 70% of bike vs car prangs being the car driver's fault, there is plenty of reason for us to insist they lift their observation and awareness skills...

[MSTRS:Me]

... Granny who has come out of the same intersection at roughly the same time for 40 years has never seen a motorcycle go past the end of the intersection before and pulls out like she always has. She didn't see little Johnny. Literally.

....

You're talking about learned behaviour. Same as the prick in his Landrover alluded to earlier (except his actions were deliberate and malicious).
No reason to accept it and not expect that something be done to counter it.

[shrub]

little Johnny buys a Scorpio and starts riding it to work. Granny who has come out of the same intersection at roughly the same time for 40 years has never seen a motorcycle go past the end of the intersection before and pulls out like she always has. She didn't see little Johnny. Literally.

That's my point exactly. If Granny was educated and made aware of the importance of looking for Johnny, and trained to know that he is out there then does it not stand to reason she will see him? Or if not granny, who may be too old to train, Mary Pajero?

Understand why SMIDSY happens, take responsibility for not putting yourself in the position of being a SMIDSY victim.

You're right, the first stage, which we can all do, is learn to avoid SMIDSY events and take action to minimise their occurance.

You can "market" the "solution" all you want, but the reality is that the target audience doesn't care. They're convinced we're the architects of our (motorcyclists) own demise at many levels.

I disagree. Over the last couple of decades we have seen a major attitudanal shift towards speeding and drink driving simply through very effective marketing. Why can't we do the same towards driver inattention?

[phill-k]

To save you reading all the ramblings below I believe to sort the issues on our roads requires the stick being turned into a bloody great hunk of 4x2 as in the penalties and then we sweeten the carrot with better training, more restrictive licensing ect.

I read with interest the solutions to our problem here, but with little acknowledgement that we are our own keeper, we demand that other road users lift their game and stop doing things that endanger our lives as road users, however the same old same old still has to play a part of this, situational awareness and personal responsibility. I find it hard to believe that someone asked how do you educate scooter riders not to do so in tee-shirt, shorts and jandals, you can't until they experience the consequences, so therefore the training required to have the privilege to ride on our roads is pointedly inadequate. Someone mentioned how does one gain the experience to ride safely, experience is gained only by riding, however inexperienced riders can gain a better understanding by taking some of the training courses available, or as I did from forums like this referrals to books on the subject, videos and observing others and learning from there abilities or in fact inability. I have both the English Police Officers handbook and the Twist of the wrist book and video. Now I'm looking to finding an experienced rider to further tune up my skills, whether that be a paid professional or someone who can assist with a periodic "check" ride.

How many motorcycle deaths on our roads are single vehicle, and how many of those are caused by circumstances that are truly beyond anyone's control or prediction. I would suggest amongst the bike riders of NZ their are a number who also could benefit from being made to be more aware as we ask car drivers to be.

On TV last night a West Australian 20something was booked for DIC whilst disqualified, not his first offence and I can't remember the numbers he had had but his first DIC was after he had knocked and killed a 10yr old off her bike. Again he was suspended and released on bail only to be charged twice more before the nights offence got to court. This admittedly is a bit extreme but obviously the recurring punishment was not a sufficient deterrent.

Yes I want to see better training and all that but until we accept that users on our roads need to have a stick that actually makes them think about their actions when getting behind the wheel we will continue to see the same old same old.

If the above example had had his car confiscated and sold after his second offence, perhaps he would see things a little differently if he committed a third not only does he loss the car but spends time in jail, upping the penalties until the point is reached where the offending will stop.

If the person who does the "U" turn without looking is charged with vehicular homicide, as should any other driver that is guilty of killing someone through error or negligence, and with this comes a penalty regime that hurts then through the publicity and fear of consequences most will change, likewise if you cause injury through error or negligence make the penalties such that most will realise that driving a vehicle is actually a responsibility and privilege not a right.

For the few that continue to endanger lives then the penalty regime must ramp up as further offences are committed.

rant ends