SMIDSY - is there such a thing?

**Pascal** · 23rd November 2010, 13:38

Originally Posted by shrub

The problem I have with that data is that the number of motorcycle fatalities was statistically too small to build a credible inference, however I take your point and let's assume that the fault is evenly split - doesn't that mean we can save lives by changing the attitudes of BOTH parties? If it was 90% motorcyclist at fault it would be a big ask to change anything, but even if we're equally responsible (which i don't believe we are) then it's important for both parties to change, not just one.

It is a small set. (50 for 2008) It's just such an interesting set of data that I'd be half tempted to see if they'd give me the raw data. I'd love to spend some of my spare time building a cube on that and seeing what I can extrapolate from it.

What it points me at is that any action needs to be targeted.

To reduce fatalities we need to really look at motorcyclists more than we need to at other road users. It is our own fault we're dying out there and that is the responsibility of all of us. Rear end/obstruction, head on and loss of control are all in the motorcyclists' bucket. Shows that concept of rider education is very important.

But for serious accidents where we're the ones ending up in wheelchairs or spending months in hospital we're going to have to start rapping on a few doors and making sure that the car drivers are aware that we exist. Look at the intersection stats. Only 20 odd % motorcyclist at fault.

They just do not see us.

I'm terrified when contemplating changing the attitudes of cagers. There are so many stereotypes that have a basis in reality. From the "No Engrish" brigade through those that left their brains in their half-hiked up jeans and backwards baseball caps to those that are quite simply oblivious to anything except the shining magnificense of their own existence. Yeah, that's you yakking away on your mobile phone...

I'm tempted to say, how many lanes do you want on that bridge? But will join MAG-NZ tonight and see how things go.

**shrub** · 23rd November 2010, 13:53

Originally Posted by Pascal

I'm tempted to say, how many lanes do you want on that bridge? But will join MAG-NZ tonight and see how things go.

It would be bloody easy to sit back and say "WTF, I'm OK because I'm careful etc", but i'm neither arrogant enough nor a good enough rider to say that I will be able to avoid every crash that comes my way. Sure, it's been 24 years since my last off (I was racing an XT550 down a gravel road 2 up on my CB900. I take full responsibility for that one), but I know that statistically the more I ride the greater the odds are that I'll have a "Oh fuck, I can't get out of this" moment, and they happen.

And I can still remember the phone call "Hi, your son has had a bike crash and is in an ambulance" when my 16 year old had an off on his pride and joy that he had slogged his guts out saving for, and an off that was a classic SMIDSY that even I would probably have failed. The young woman who hit him was absolutely devastated and in her letter of apology said that she would always see motorbikes now and would never let it happen again. One more safe driver, pity it cost my son his bike and nearly his life.

And thanks for joining MAG.

**shrub** · 23rd November 2010, 13:55

Originally Posted by hellokitty

True - you have to look out for yourself because no one else will look out for you.
Yes people need to be educated, but you can't make people give a damn - some people just don't care.
The landrover guy I spoke of before lives his whole life like a prick and treats everyone like crap = and he rides a motorbike as well.

yep, he is someone who needs to lose his license forever and is no better than a serious recidivist drink driver or for that matter a violent criminal. Some people you will never change, but for every dead head loser like him there are a hundred who can be changed.

**yungatart** · 23rd November 2010, 14:39

I don't think that this should be an us and them situation.
We as riders need to focus on what we can do to improve our odds, but there is no reason why other road users shouldn't focus on what they can do to better their odds too.

A nationwide campaign that would see all NZ road users targetted for safety initiatives is what is needed, not just the speed kills and drink driving ads. For instance, the intersection raffle wheel series could easily be adapted to include a motorcycle component.

Imagine if every road user lifted their performance even 5%. What a difference that could make!

**MSTRS:Me** · 23rd November 2010, 14:59

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Yes people need to be educated, but you can't make people give a damn - some people just don't care.
The landrover guy I spoke of before lives his whole life like a prick and treats everyone like crap = and he rides a motorbike as well.

Really? Oh well, Perhaps the sentence should include Frontal Lobotomy...

**shrub** · 23rd November 2010, 15:03

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Really? Oh well, Perhaps the sentence should include Frontal Lobotomy...

I'm a gynaechologist (self taught) so that makes me qualified to do it because he's a cunt. I have a Makita hammer drill which would do the job fine.

**shrub** · 23rd November 2010, 15:03

Originally Posted by yungatart

I don't think that this should be an us and them situation.
We as riders need to focus on what we can do to improve our odds, but there is no reason why other road users shouldn't focus on what they can do to better their odds too.

A nationwide campaign that would see all NZ road users targetted for safety initiatives is what is needed, not just the speed kills and drink driving ads. For instance, the intersection raffle wheel series could easily be adapted to include a motorcycle component.

Imagine if every road user lifted their performance even 5%. What a difference that could make!

You're on the money there mate.

**onearmedbandit** · 23rd November 2010, 15:15

A 'campaign' isn't going to change 5-50yrs of driving habits though. Nor will it cure driver inattention, driver distraction, driver collapse, driver fatigue.

Edit - yes you will see some change, but over a very very very long time. How long has drink driving been considered anti-social now? 20+yrs? Yet still people do it every day. Sure to a lesser extent than 20yrs ago, but it's still a present hazard on our roads.

**Squiggles** · 23rd November 2010, 15:29

Originally Posted by James Deuce

Easy. It's been done over and over. Motion Camouflage. Look it up, understand it.

Bike Magazine did an article on it a while back, here for those interested

**pritch** · 23rd November 2010, 16:57

Originally Posted by shrub

People ride Harleys, eat McDonalds and drink Tui - that's all the proof I need that marketing changes attitudes.

I don't do any of those things, so that's proof it doesn't.
(Anyway I thought only rugby league players drank Tui

)

**cs363** · 23rd November 2010, 18:06

Originally Posted by Katman

If we've got our own eyes open and are making allowance for the incompetence of others the vast majority of these incidents would never become an issue.

Dead right - if you don't ride with the attitude that you're invisible to other road users or that everyone is out to get you then there's a damn good chance you'll be having a SMIDSY moment at some stage in your life - probably sooner rather than later.
Hell, some people don't even seem to be able to see a 40 tonne truck, let alone a wee motorcycle.

**PrincessBandit** · 23rd November 2010, 18:20

Originally Posted by baptist

So you picked it all up in two weeks of intensive riding around London, good for you. How about the newbie, like me, who commutes and then rides at the weekend, we do not get that level of experience that quickly. .................

I think some of it can depend on your environment that you regularly ride in. Collisions can happen anywhere where there is a moving vehicle; but if your daily commute as a noob is around Auckland then your risk factor is probably significantly higher than if it's in, say, Twizel. If your daily commute is in and around Dorkland then you may have to save your excitement of being on 2 wheels for quieter weekend rides and keep taking the bus or train to work while you build up your riding skills and situational awareness.
My own experience was that when I first started riding I avoided going into the city at all for several months, preferring to head out south where there was less congestion blah blah blah. Sure, there were still corners, gravel spray, suicidal wildlife, other vehicles on the road etc. to watch out for, but the mental overload was nowhere near as great as trying to learn all these things in the confines of the congestion and frenetic pace of inner city streets.

**rastuscat** · 23rd November 2010, 18:34

I've previously started threads on SMIDSYs, but nobody has come up with a credible way to try to prevent them.

Charlie Lamb (The Prof) presented a paper that covered it, and his best advice is to try to make yourself more visible. That doesn't mean wearing lemon coloured geek suits, but that would also work in part. What Charlie talked about was contrast, like, black jacket with white contrast panels. It's the contrast that counts.

Riding in better positions would also work better, with the x-plane movement being a key.

There's already a world of stuff on the interweb on how to make yourself more visible.

Trouble is, a lot on KB just say that it's up to everyone else to see them, not their issue to be more visible. It's a question of owning the solution, not the problem.

Anyway, SMIDSYs happen every day. I attended a crash this morning where an elderly todger had overtaken a cyclist, then turned left and knocked the 15 year old girl to the footpath. 2 lost teeth and a world of facials is the penalty for her. Thank (insert whatever word you use for God) she had a helmet on, hers was partially trashed.

Just accept that it's a physiological fact that someone can look at you and not see you, as the messages the eye sees are not always translated by the brain as objects.

It's reality.

So are donuts.