ESE's works engine tuner

[TZ350]

The complete how too......... of the Jaycar CDI kit

[Bert]

Hi Bert

The Jaycar kit looks like it could be modified to have a retard curve as shown in the link on your post.

Attachment 224826

It also looks like it could be made to run without a seperate trigger coil.

Although a trigger coil could be fitted, and it could even be as simple as a few turns (60?) of wire around the main HV generator coil.

Hadn't actually compared both of them side by side.

but yes it looks as if it can be modified to do just that. nice; good spotting
(I'll have to have a play with mine and see what we can get out of it).

I quite liked the idea of a separate trigger, a little pic micro sitting in-line would enable programming of the advance curve.

was thinking about one of these:
http://newmanz.co.nz/shop/index.php?...roducts_id=205
question is could the pick-up coil be modified to generate enough voltage at hig RPMs??? if so a lathe would sort out the rest...

[TZ350]

I quite liked the idea of a separate trigger, a little pic micro sitting in-line would enable programming of the advance curve.

was thinking about one of these:
http://newmanz.co.nz/shop/index.php?...roducts_id=205
question is could the pick-up coil be modified to generate enough voltage at hig RPMs??? if so a lathe would sort out the rest...

Hi Bert

Jaycar have a small Velleman (kit VM111) PIC programming board with software.

I have had a look at the ignition from Newmans before, I think it should work OK with the Jaycar CDI. The problem for me was that the rotor taper was to big for the GP which is quite small, smaller than a MB100 or CB/SL125.

If the trigger works ok at low rpm then it should be ok at higher rpm too as the voltage increases the faster the magnetic field cuts the windings in the coil, ie, voltage goes up as rpm increases untill the magnetic flux through the iron core saturates.

Anyway an ignition firing every revolution at 12,000rpm is running at 200Hz, (12,000/60=200), not much above base speaker frequency, so not very fast in electrical terms.

I think Shellracing has used one of those ignition units from Newmans. So lots of interesting CDI bits to play with........

[TZ350]

This is my XL spreadsheet for the basic design of an expansion chamber, based on work by someone who knows their stuff.........

The spread sheet......

Attachment 223667

And the Maths...........

Attachment 223669
Attachment 223666
Attachment 223665
Attachment 223664
Attachment 223668

Bucket used the spread sheet to design a series of chambers who's tuned length ranges from 820 to 920mm, there will be five chambers in the series.

We could have used mid section slip joints but as the cones themselves vary in length with changes in the tuned length we wanted to have a series of chambers that could more represented what the final design should look like.



Three of Buckets chambers compaired with the GP/RM pipe that NedKelly uses on his 23rwhp Suzuki GP125 (see Page 200).

Things that affect the tuned length are:-

Higher RPM: shorter tuned length. as there is less time for the wave to get there and back.

More exhaust port duration: longer Tuned Length, as there is more time for the wave to get there and back.

More Power (higher BMEP indicating more heat) at the same RPM, longer Tuned Length: as the exhaust gas is hotter and the wave travels faster so gets there and back quicker.



Bucket making up the cones.



Bucket getting his hand in at TIGing them up.

Finding the right Tuned Length is a bit of the Chicken and Egg thing, you don't know the exhaust temp untill you have made a pipe and dynoed it. Then you can work backwards from the hp and calculate the BMEP which you need to know if you wan't to accuratly design a new pipe.

We had an idea of the style of pipe we wanted, medium GP race and expect that having this series of chambers covering the range of Tuned length variables that we will be able to close in on the best option quickly.

These pipes are pretty generic and will be usefull for testing with other engines too.

[kel]

Bucket used the spread sheet to design a series of chambers ... These pipes are pretty generic and will be usefull for testing with other engines too.

hope they have a 37mm header

[TZ350]

.

Another dyno graph from the Mt Eden Motorcycles Dyno.

Blue line, a front running FXR150

Red line, my old Suzuki GP125

Green line, Speedpros new Wobbly designed MB100



Speedpros bike is indeed a beast.............. Taupo is looking serious........

[richban]

.

Blue line, a front running FXR150

Shouldn't that be a near standard FXR? I will have mine on the dyno on saturday so will post a graph on the weekend. Used to make 24 Old engine that is, same engine that ran Taupo last year. It 2 has a wobbly pipe now.

[speedpro]

I've just negotiated an exclusive contract with Wobbly for next year.

This is the text of an email I got recently from him:

"I got an email from Kevin Bann complaining to some bastard had got 29 out of an MB100.
I told him 30 was going to be easy and that 4 strokes were shit."

He's another guy who will never cross to the dark side.

[richban]

I've just negotiated an exclusive contract with Wobbly for next year.

This is the text of an email I got recently from him:

"I got an email from Kevin Bann complaining to some bastard had got 29 out of an MB100.
I told him 30 was going to be easy and that 4 strokes were shit."

He's another guy who will never cross to the dark side.

Yes I got the same email. The good thing is that Kevin and Wobbly are now at war trying to make lots of power out of bucket engines. That means some of the most talented engine developers around are now putting all there knowledge and technology into buckets or should 1 say F4. Looks like I was lucky to get his input into the megaphone before the war started. New FXR engine will be together next week. Then of to Manifield to run it in. Then to the dyno. Don't under estimate the power of the dark side.

[ac3_snow]

That means some of the most talented engine developers around are now putting all there knowledge and technology into buckets or should 1 say F4.

hmmm guess thats good news.. or it may make life a whole lot harder trying to keep up?

[RMS eng]

.

Another dyno graph from the Mt Eden Motorcycles Dyno.

Blue line, a front running FXR150

Red line, my old Suzuki GP125

Green line, Speedpros new Wobbly designed MB100



Speedpros bike is indeed a beast.............. Taupo is looking serious........

would greens MB100 still make 29 HP if the dyno was set to SAE HP,Jasons KE100 makes 24.8HP on the SAE sheets i have but would be 25.55 HP in DIN
chris p

[Damien_Toman]

Great workshop photos . I always find workshops fascinating - the place where ideas take shape .

[TZ350]

would greens MB100 still make 29 HP if the dyno was set to SAE HP,Jasons KE100 makes 24.8HP on the SAE sheets i have but would be 25.55 HP in DIN chris p

Yes your right there is a difference I will see if there is an SAE graph, we prefer SAE ourselves but used DIN so as to compare apples with apples as other graphs posted here were in DIN or PS. DIN = PS = 735.5W and hp (UK) = 745.7W

29.6 DIN converts to 29.2 HP, using this handy converter, http://www.statman.info/conversions/power.html

But whatever, Speedpros effort has got to be the stuff of legends.

[F5 Dave]

Yeah but the ESE bike whips it up until ~10,500. Enforce a Bucket revlimiting std CDI in the next rules update.


What make of dyno is the Mt Eden one? My old aircooled 125 (which I ran at Taupo in '06 was clearly outpowered by RG150s, which should have 26-28hp) ran 24hp on a dyno here in wgtn, but it only managed 19 at my usual dynojet one with no changes.

[bucketracer]

What make of dyno is the Mt Eden one? My old aircooled 125 (which I ran at Taupo in '06 was clearly outpowered by RG150s, which should have 26-28hp) ran 24hp on a dyno here in wgtn, but it only managed 19 at my usual dynojet one with no changes.

Dyno Jet, WinPep software version 6.03.01, autocorrecting for RAD and Humidity too, I think.....