Thursday's Dominion Rd crash killing a biker

[NONONO]

Send his name and address to the Hell's Angels or Hwy61 and see if they have any prospects that need "exersizing". Do it half a dozen times, get some media coverage ,instant all cage drivers SEE bikes.(perceived threat) Regards Richard

Easily impressed.......much?

[MarkH]

Multiple eye-witnesses report the bike going down the median and hit the car so hard, the car spun around and back into it's lane. Ignoring any estimates of the bike's speed, surely you'd have to be doing something extremely silly for a 200kg object to shunt a 1200kg object that far - irrespective of whether the car pulled out to make a turn without checking. What was that mangled mess anyway, an FZ/R 1000 or similar?

How much damage is done by a bike (with rider + pillion) travelling at 50-60kph hitting a car? Is this damage way out of line compared to that?

There is also a problem of too many motorcyclists riding around in heavy traffic like cocks.

This thread is about an incident in which a rider was killed & a pillion was injured, I am not sure that your comments are appropriate here.

All due respect, the bike hit the car, not the other way around.

From what I read it sounds like the car turned into the path of the motorcycle after the driver looked & failed to see the bike. Regardless of the speed of the bike or the failure of the bike rider to avoid the collision (if avoidance was possible) the car driver was clearly wrong to turn into the path of an oncoming vehicle that he should have been able to see.

[Phreak]

Jesus, another biker accident...? Is it the season for it all of a sudden? Maybe I will stay off my bike for a while yet I think... Seems like someone is being clipped or hit every other day at the moment! This is almost getting depressing, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks so.

Again, condolences to the rider's family and friends. Speedy recovery to the pillion.

[Berries]

No doubt the bike haters and Katman will blame the bike rider but it would appear the bike simply wasn't seen in this instance. A terrible accident that in reality shouldn't of happened.

I think that's a bit harsh. I'm not commenting on this crash at all, just your quote above. We all know car drivers don't see us so it is up to us to make sure when they do pull out on as us, as they do all the bloody time, we are in a postion to do something about it. It is as simple as that. No point apportioning blame to anyone. People fuck up, we get hurt.

[Katman]

No doubt the bike haters and Katman will blame the bike rider

The accidents that I comment on have enough information available for me to make a judgement call on.

I don't know enough about this one to have an opinion yet.

In the meantime - go fuck yourself.

[rastuscat]

The accidents that I comment on have enough information available for me to make a judgement call on.

I don't know enough about this one to have an opinion yet.

In the meantime - go fuck yourself.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good caption sheet.

[phill-k]

Right...so...
Fat bloke in the pub said.....
No real evidence yet then..

On the contrary plenty of evidence and the serious crash unit will in time publish their findings.
Be a nice idea if we all stop speculating until then.
Remember though very few collisions on our roads are accidents where neither party if acting appropriately could have mitigated the outcome.

[Neon]

There is a very interesting book called "The Invisible Gorilla and other ways out intuitions deceive us" by a couple of cognitive psychologists Christopher Chabris and Daniel Simons. They are the brains behind the famous 'Invisible Gorilla" experiment with the basketball players passing a ball, and the gorilla that walks through the shot while the observer is busy counting passes. Very few people notice the gorilla despite the fact that it is in the centre of the screen.

Chabris and Simons dedicate most of a chapter to the phenomenon of motorcyclists being practically invisible to other road users. The major problem has already been alluded to by others, that people do not expect to see motorcycles, so do not see them. Our brains must receive and process such a massive amount of visual information while in control of a motor vehicle, that the brain economises on processing power by constructing 'models' of the environment which it calls up as required. These models are based on experience and also to an extent our survival instincts (other's comments regarding 'threat' detection fit here nicely).

The real problem is this: That because these perceptual models are based on experience, no amount of hi-viz, lights-on policies or loud pipes are going to have any real impact on getting drivers to see motorcycles. Educational campaigns such as 'Look out for Motorbikes' have limited effect because they are quickly forgotten and are therefore never fully implemented into these subconsious perceptual models.

In truth, the only solution that is likely to have any real lasting effect is to significantly increase the number of motorcycles on the road, so that drivers of other vehicles have evidential visual experience of motorcycles every time they set out, and integrate the expectation of motorcycle-like objects into their subconcious programming.

This also explains why as motorcyclists we cannot understand why other drivers do not see us - because WE would. We automatically notices motorcycles because we expect to see them.

What does this mean for us? That we cannot expect drivers of other vehicles to see us. And if we want to ride motorcycles on the road, our survival rests solely with our skills of defensive riding and the anticipation of hazardous situations. No amount of berating other drivers for their incompetencies or threatening them with harsher penalties will magically make it so.

[dipshit]

This thread is about an incident in which a rider was killed & a pillion was injured, I am not sure that your comments are appropriate here.

Too bad.

The point is this could easily be another situation of a motorcyclist riding in a completely irresponsible and stupid manner and the car driver is the unfortunate party that had to share the road with a shit for brains motorcyclist.

[Swoop]

Jesus, another biker accident...? Is it the season for it all of a sudden?

No. Late October onwards is the start of "the season". We have been very lucky this year so far...

In truth, the only solution that is likely to have any real lasting effect is to significantly increase the number of motorcycles on the road, so that drivers of other vehicles have evidential visual experience of motorcycles every time they set out, and integrate the expectation of motorcycle-like objects into their subconcious programming.

Unfortunately in NZ we have fuck all road training. Drivers are concentrating on "the road" (if very experienced...) but will fail to notice the SUV reversing out of a driveway, the kiddie chasing a ball out of a gate, the dog chasing a cat onto the road, etc, etc, etc.

Situational awareness is a vital thing. Unfortunately only around 5% of road users will have it.

[Katman]

Unfortunately in NZ we have fuck all road training. Drivers are concentrating on "the road" (if very experienced...) but will fail to notice the SUV reversing out of a driveway, the kiddie chasing a ball out of a gate, the dog chasing a cat onto the road, etc, etc, etc.

Situational awareness is a vital thing. Unfortunately only around 5% of road users will have it.

Or the lane splitting motorcyclist that fails to see the gap in the traffic ahead that would allow a car to turn across their path.

[porky]

Or the lane splitting motorcyclist that fails to see the gap in the traffic ahead that would allow a car to turn across their path.

I thought you hadnt formed an opinion yet?

[Katman]

I thought you hadnt formed an opinion yet?

It's not an opinion on this accident - it's a general observation.

[u4ea]

RIP to the rider and condolences to all concerned.

I am not looking forward to the right hand rule change..dont even know if pedestrians will be safe until we all get used to it

[Tink]

RIP to the biker involved, and may the pillion pull through! ... I hope the driver will have some forgiveness given him, and he takes a defensive driving course, and gets behind the wheel again safely, and carefully more aware of ALL humans on whatever or not transport are in, as he can... the biker can't.