Read it. Pay attention.

[gatch]

He has been an broken record since birth..

[miloking]

I don't quite understand that response. I've never had an accident and I've always contributed to whatever incident I've had. It is NOT an accident when someone falls asleep at the wheel, it is not an accident when someone crosses the centre line, it is not an accident when a drunk driver does what drunk drivers do, it is not an accident when someone runs a red light, it is not an accident when someone reverses over a child.

They're not accidents. I never said accidents were preventable.

My riff is that people fuck up and then try to assuage guilt or shame by labelling them as something inoffensive, like an "accident". They happen because people don't give enough of a shit to make sure they don't happen.

Negligent incompetence is not an accident.

If I wear lace up boots on a bike and fall off at the lights because the lace is looped around the kick start, that's me being a stupid mouth breathing loser, not an accident.

If I run a red and get killed by a bus, that's me being a selfish arsehole putting my needs ahead of a sensible traffic flow restriction designed to stop me being run over by a bus or running into someone else, not an accident.

Livestock on the road? Incompetent farmer, not an accident. Hitting the stock on the road? Incompetent rider for not managing the risk. It's not an accident. If the sheep was dropped from 30,000 feet by a passing UFO, that's an accident.

Losing control on a bend? The car/bike didn't do it.

They aren't regrettable incidents. They're people fucking up.

Bullshit...

If sheep gets dropped from 30,000 feet by a passing UFO its not and accident its aliens fault!

[sinned]

What he said - VERY few crashes are actually true accidents - almost all are the result of one or more people screwing-up, - even if they didn't intend or plan to.

This sums it up for me as the academic argument on what is an accident is not a lot of use. No matter how carefully you ride there will come that time!

An example most who have ridden for years/kms have experienced is the car turning right into your path; you see it, see the driver who seems to be looking at you, weave a little to be noticed, cover the brake - and then he pulls out - gaaah. If you hit the car are you a contributor to the accident/incident/crash; with some of what has been posted here the answer is yes and it wasn't an accident? Other than slowing to walking pace at every intersection how can you avoid that potential crash? And if you do that he/she will pull out thinking you are stopping/turning etc.

So lets get real - life is full of risks and riding a motorcycle increases your personal risk of injury or death. Manage those risks as best you can and if you can't then give up riding.

[mashman]

Bullshit...

If sheep gets dropped from 30,000 feet by a passing UFO its not and accident its aliens fault!

If the tractor beam malfunctions and drops them? Mechanical failure? Drunk multi-tentacled Service Technician?

[mashman]

This sums it up for me as the academic argument on what is an accident is not a lot of use. No matter how carefully you ride there will come that time!

The academic argument is all that matters in a court of Law, some people live by it. Was it really an accident?

[Bonez]

Bullshit...

If sheep gets dropped from 30,000 feet by a passing UFO its not and accident its aliens fault!

Absolutely. NZ should be an alien free zone, what with them fucking with our sheep and all.

[MSTRS:Me]

So much is evident. Takes more than that to change the meaning of a word, though.



Hear that noise? It's the sound of minds closing en mass. Resorting to euphemisms and slogans in a paltry attempt at social engineering does that. If the pro's can't use that trick with any success then you won't change other peoples behaviour either, trust me.

You think I'm using a trick? Playing word games, or something?
Fact remains, if an event was avoidable, then it's not truly an accident.

[LBD]

Fact remains, if an event was avoidable, then it's not truly an accident.

But there is a big difference between "avoidable before the fact" and "could have been avoidable..after the fact with the benifit of hind sight"

" If only I new then what I know now, I could have avoided the crash"

[MSTRS:Me]

But there is a big difference between "avoidable before the fact" and "could have been avoidable..after the fact with the benifit of hind sight"

" If only I new then what I know now, I could have avoided the crash"

True, that. There are a LOT of motorists out there who have no idea...or would at least let you believe it were so.

[Ocean1]

You think I'm using a trick? Playing word games, or something?

Duno what you’re up to, I suspect that like a lot of people you’re attempting to reinforce the general concept that all accidents are predictable and therefore preventable, and that people should take more care, spend more time “predicting”. If that's the message you'd like to send then fine, choose better words.

Fact remains, if an event was avoidable, then it's not truly an accident.

It doesn’t make any difference how many times you repeat it, it’s not fact, it’s bollox. You’re attempting to insist that the words meaning is other than what it’s customarily understood to be, and I’d suggest that trying to alter the meaning of the word “accident” in some misguided attempt to, (presumably) minimise the FACT of them isn’t likely to make them any less common or frequent.

Also... about that message: Be aware that a reinforced degree of risk aversion in humans has been demonstrated to be synonymous with a high degree of behavioural uncertainty. I’m sure you know someone like that, whose driving behaviour is so uncertain and downright tentative that they’re actually a menace on the road? Well, it’s just my opinion, (and therefore based on a limited data set) but I'd rate uncertainty as one of the biggest factors in road accidents. I'd also rate the associated failure of rapid descision making to be the single biggest killer of motorcyclists, (check out the signature). And yes, that does amount to a suggestion that some forms of road safety programme are counterproductive.

[LBD]

There are a LOT of motorists out there who have no idea....

Ain't that the truth.... and the problem, because law makers aim at addressing the lowest common factor, instead of letting Darwin do his bit.

Road laws that are made based on the abilities of the knuckle draging minority are then inflicted on the rest of the population, no wonder much of the law is considered a load of bunk by the majority.

[MSTRS:Me]

Duno what you’re up to, I suspect that like a lot of people you’re attempting to reinforce the general concept that all accidents are predictable and therefore preventable, and that people should take more care, spend more time “predicting”. If that's the message you'd like to send then fine, choose better words.

No. No. No. What is so fucking hard to understand? I simply made the differentiation between what is a crash and what is an accident. If my standard of what constitutes an accident differs from yours, then so be it. The concept is still 100% valid.

All CRASHES are predictable and therefore preventable.

ACCIDENTS are not. Perhaps I should call them Acts of God? Then you can argue that God is a subjective figment of my imagination, and therefore doesn't exist, so events claimed to be caused by him/her are a copout by the involved party. Or something...

May I remind you of the article that started this thread, where the retiring cop said "People still have the view that crashes are accidents. There is no such thing as an accident ... It's not an act of God."

[Ocean1]

No. No. No. What is so fucking hard to understand?

Nonsense, usually. In fact it’s probably the one universal common denominator, difficulties in translation an' all that.

All CRASHES are predictable and therefore preventable.

Accidents are not. Perhaps I should call them Acts of God? Then you can argue that God is a subjective figment of my imagination, and therefore doesn't exist, so events claimed to be caused by him/her are a copout by the involved party. Or something...

And the way I see it, in some circumstances a two-vehicle prang can be a crash for one of them and an accident for the other.

In fact, being, (for the meantime) artificially empowered in the department of “capable of understanding gibberish” by way of a substantial libation of the Xmas brandy I understand you perfectly. You propose that if it’s predictable then it’s not an accident, and as all crashes are predictable then ipso vercie: none of 'em are accidents. See: perfect translation.

The proposal’s bullshit, though. In assessing a theory, (that accidents aren’t accidents if they’re predictable) it’s useful to ask “is factor (a) universally true?” So, can it be said that all accidents are predictable? Yes, with enough data and enough time. So we’ve got a situation, here, gentlemen: “There’s no such thing as an accident”.

So why have we bothered inventing a word for it, then? All those years of verbiage; wasted. Critical tracts of verse; meaningless. Wordsworth’s toil all in vain.... But wait, what’s that on the horizon?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/accident

accident
–noun

1. an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents.
2. Law . such a happening resulting in injury that is in no way the fault of the injured person for which compensation or indemnity is legally sought.
3. any event that happens unexpectedly, without a deliberate plan or cause.
4. chance; fortune; luck: I was there by accident.
5. a fortuitous circumstance, quality, or characteristic: an accident of birth.
6. Philosophy . any entity or event contingent upon the existence of something else.
7. Geology . a surface irregularity, usually on a small scale, the reason for which is not apparent.

Thank fook for that, the English language; saved at last from the perverse renderings of the evel....

OK, OK, I'm off for a wee nap.

[Antonio]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10696130

There's no such thing as an accident. Someone will have screwed up somewhere.

Nice article, thanks for sharing.
Merry X-mas.

[mashman]

All CRASHES are predictable and therefore preventable.

No they're not and by default, no they're not. Just because you have a trend that tells you what numbers you're likely to be looking at, does not make ALL crashes predictable. It makes it an educated guess at best, sometime, somewhere, a T-Junction crash will happen. Pretty vague really and hardly predictable.