PC brigade already on the offensive at police chases

[Scootbubba]

The morals they learn growing up and the opportunities they are given are the exact opposite of how you would have raised your boy,
The family are getting all the sympathy, when they should be bearing the brunt of the blame.

Blaming and shaming mourners won't alter the result. It is a bomb blast personal loss, however badly they may have parented the lad. What's to say he wouldn't have become a productive worker, as I know many turn round after bad starts.

Mean comments about oxygen theft are about as decent (at this time) as saying bikers deserve death just for being fool enough to ride. Irreverence rules here?

In my opinion everyone has polar opposite ideas about how to get the best result, but why knock 'em unless you offer superior ideas. A tolL of 20 is nothing to crow about, and suggests room for improvement in approaches of ALL involved - aye or nay. It's not about cops or robbers or right or wrong, it's a community problem. Far too much attention is going onto politicians and cops and lobbyists views, as opposed to community driven change.

Do KB pillions advise their rider they do not consent to being taken hostage should their buddy flee cops, before mounting? Do KBs kids know to only use trusted drivers when cruising with teen mates and dates?

[Pascal]

I blame them giving woman the right to vote in 1896

Yeah. I have no idea how they decided which one actually got the vote.

[mashman]

Tui advert time?
The individual needs to take responsibility, noy "society" or "the gubbinment".

Bullshit. Individuals can choose not to take responsibility (even grown up politicians), the don't NEED to do anything . Try forcing someone to take responsibility for anything they don't see as their "fault". You then enforce Societies "morals"/"laws" upon the individual as a lesson. Therefore, and by default, it is then left to Society where the parents cannot "control" the impulses of their children. If they ain't being bad, Society has done a decent enough job, not just the parents...

It takes a Village to raise a child.

[Dave Lobster]

Blaming and shaming mourners won't alter the result. It is a bomb blast personal loss, however badly they may have parented the lad. What's to say he wouldn't have become a productive worker, as I know many turn round after bad starts.

And how many that didn't?

Mean comments about oxygen theft are about as decent (at this time) as saying bikers deserve death just for being fool enough to ride. Irreverence rules here?

Riding is not foolish. Riding in a manner that will get you killed is. Riding a stolen bike at high speed, running from the police is foolish, and I'd happily wish death on all bike thieves.

It's not about cops or robbers or right or wrong, it's a community problem. Far too much attention is going onto politicians and cops and lobbyists views, as opposed to community driven change.

It is not a community problem. It's a shit people problem. The way other people raise their ferel/warrior gened offspring is nothing to do with me.

[Scootbubba]

Dat you Michael bro?

[Pascal]

It takes a Village to raise a child.

It's all small building blocks. You need to start with a cohesive, happy family unit. Once the house is happy, mommy and daddy or daddy and daddy or mommy and mommy (Pix plx) is happy and loving eachother that unit is good. Expand that to knowing your neighbours, watering their garden while they're out, having the odd barbeque together and just being part of that community. Spread that out a bit to the neighbourhood and eventually all these little connected units of happiness will be a good, productive village all taking care and helping each-other.

Of course, that's idealistic. Is it still possible for that type of village community to exist?

[mashman]

It's all small building blocks. You need to start with a cohesive, happy family unit. Once the house is happy, mommy and daddy or daddy and daddy or mommy and mommy (Pix plx) is happy and loving eachother that unit is good. Expand that to knowing your neighbours, watering their garden while they're out, having the odd barbeque together and just being part of that community. Spread that out a bit to the neighbourhood and eventually all these little connected units of happiness will be a good, productive village all taking care and helping each-other.

Of course, that's idealistic. Is it still possible for that type of village community to exist?

You don't need a happy family unit to have happy, well adjusted kids . But i understand what you mean and i'm sure it helps.

Those communities exist all over the planet... I've lived in a few and i'm pretty damned sure there are plenty of places like that in NZ... plus i bet they're a damn site less PC about life in general...

[slowpoke]

FFS open your bloody eyes man, socialists (most of NZ) believe that children belong to the State and as a consequence the State has gradually usurped parents rights of control over their children!

Social engineering (Legislative tinkering) by successive (mainly socialist) MMP governments has set the ground rules for the situation we find ourselves in right now!

PC fuckwits blaming the police for interfering with these dumb undisciplined kiddies rights while they steal some poor hard working bastards car!

Now you want to hold the parents accountable for the result!

Parents are like boxers being sent into the ring with their hands tied behind their backs and then being held accountable for not winning!

National has done nothing to change this and their current term is almost up, so who "is" going to turn it around in the future!

So far it looks like it is only going to get worse before it gets better!

The person responsible is the person doing "the crime". Parents have to instill the "right" into the child, but they have their hands tied behind their back (as stated previously in this thread) if they do not abide by the gubbinments way of thinking.


Tui advert time?
The individual needs to take responsibility, noy "society" or "the gubbinment".

48hrs in the Town Hall stocks would sort that shit out.

Well said!

48 hrs in The Town Hall Stocks...

Irrelevant if you give them a clip around the ear or a wallop on the backside?


Thank fuck someone else gets it.

Sorry, don't agree.

There is no public servant parked in your lounge room 24/7 so exactly how have governments removed the ability of parents to influence their children?

Exactly what is it that the government and the rest of us "Socialists" are stopping parents from doing that would make all the difference? Exactly how are parents hands tied? These things must be written somewhere, where do I find them?

Sorry, but parents can still talk to their kids, can still set an example, can still involve/encourage/assist them in sports and/or education, can still choose who they decide to let into their house, can stop sub-10 year olds from cruising the streets at crazy hours, can teach respect for people/property/animals etc etc etc etc.

Nup, personal/parental responsibility is not something a government can take away, it's something you choose to relinquish.

[Genestho]

Of course, that's idealistic. Is it still possible for that type of village community to exist?

Yes it is possible, and yes it does exist. It is up to the community to make it happen, not standby and fantasize.

My street is part of a few thousand wide neighbourhood support watch scheme, we officially started two years ago. But unofficially nothing changed, the only difference was we were given stickers for our doors.
We know when a stranger walks or drives down the street, look out for each others homes when we're away, water the gardens, tell kids off when they're upto mischief and send them home to their parents with the full true story - just like the old days. We have a sign asking drivers to "go slow, children playing", xmas street parties to introduce new families..

We are all able to still live private lives, it's not an intrusive lifestyle - but we are all concerned young families and we are a community that looks out for each other.

[Pascal]

There is no public servant parked in your lounge room 24/7 so exactly how have governments removed the ability of parents to influence their children?

I don't think it is entirely about removal of the ability to influence children. For me it is in the government taking responsiblity for so many aspects of people's lives that the attitude, in general, has become one of "She'll be alright mate, the govt will take care of it."

You don't need retirement savings, because there is Superannuation.
You don't need health insurance, because there is free health-care.
You don't need income protection, because there is welfare.
You don't need to work, because there is welfare.
You don't need insurance, because there is ACC.
You don't need to take of your children, because there is free child-care.
You don't need to work harder or smarter, because there is Working for Families.
You don't need to improve yourself, because the government will take care of you.
Everybody needs to be equal - let's redistribute income to make it so.
There are no winners or losers.
You can't eat pies because they make you fat - let's take them out of tuckshops.
You can't do this.
You can't do that.

It goes on and on and on. I'm painting in very broad strokes, but I do believe those types of things which "socialists" generally paint as taking care of people are actually removing their desire to take care of themselves.

Why would somebody work to improve themselves when they know they can get a top-up on their income from Working for Families?

Why would a family save for their children's education when they can get interest free student loans?

I'm not taking shots at those items specifically. There is good in a lot of that. But I also think it has helped to breed generations of people who are slowly losing their independance from their government. And that fucking terrifies me.

Yes it is, and yes it does.

Without giving away too much, whereabouts in the country is that?

[Genestho]

Without giving away too much, whereabouts in the country is that?

Tauranga. The reason we did this is because there were three severe and significant incidences down our street that impacted on young families (EDIT: actually make that 4, a new family moved in recently that had been home invaded last xmas day) and a few of us got together and discussed what could we do, one of our neighbours volunteers for night owls, and then we got behind neighbourhood watch support. I think I read we are one of the biggest suburban groups in NZ

[PrincessBandit]

Yeah yeah yeah, blah blah blah, but you aint answered my questions yet noodles....

What were were you cooking and what were you wearing when you were cooking it?

Yes photo's please.........

Oh ok, just 'cos you asked so nicely.

small print: some details might differ from that shown!


Hey, the hair colour is the same though...

[mashman]

Nup, personal/parental responsibility is not something a government can take away, it's something you choose to relinquish.

Can CYFS serve orders to have children removed from happy homes (sometimes the information is wrong, or the "argument" has been greatly exaggerated)? Do you know what an ASBO is? Just 2 examples of personal and parental responsibility being removed by the govt. And that's just 2 that I know of.

I'm sure there are some parents that are glad to see the back of their kids and happily relinquish the responsibility. Hardly surprising when you look around at some of the kids these days, attacking policemen, vandalising, general thuggery etc... the list of their talents is endless. Some people can't handle it. The govt washes their hands too... they just give the kids a house and a few bucks each week and they've done their bit. Then people wonder why society is shit, it must be the parents.

I disagree that the govt is not responsible. It may not be wholly responsible, but they're taking over the parenting role, giving the kid a roof and money for food and play etc... What then? Kid on his own. Money in his pocket, system to abuse... Game on.

[PrincessBandit]

[QUOTE=Pascal;1129949744]............ in general, has become one of "She'll be alright mate, the govt will take care of it."

You don't need retirement savings, because there is Superannuation.
...............................
Everybody needs to be equal - let's redistribute income to make it so.
There are no winners or losers.
You can't eat pies because they make you fat - let's take them out of tuckshops.
You can't do this.
You can't do that.

It goes on and on and on.

There really is no incentive for individual responsibility - those who display it generally hold it as an intrinsic value within themselves. Lots of people know they could get way ahead in life if they were prepared to rort the system but won't. Others screw the system for everything they can and play the game counting on the PC brigade to inadvertantly (or otherwise) defend them.

While there has been lots of speculation as to the type of upbringing this young boy might have had, there just are some kids who no matter what their parents try to do for them just have to cause their folks grief and heartache.

[Scootbubba]

Necessitating the new housing projects like Springhill.