Buy from NZ? I tried but come on...

[Edbear]

perfect competative market, too many players, pricetakers, the intelligent ones will exit that market and join one that has a distortion, the others will continue shooting out till they lose.
There is no point ruining a good business by hitting an obsticle you can actually see.

Having an edge is the key. I've seen people start up in very competitive market and fail after putting everything they've got into it. If you're in a competitive market, and I've been there, you need to have something specific to you that makes the customer come to your business rather than the competition. That "something" has to be not just price, in fact the price of the goods is about third on the list of what the customer is looking for.

Better though is to look for a market where there is a definite need and see how you can fill that need. I have built up a long list of business aquaintances and find networking to be crucial to growth. Also, be honest and reliable, back up what you say and sell, and don't rip anyone off!

One of the biggest contributors to failure is that people spend in advance, counting on business growth or potential growth to fund their spending. It's called "counting your chickens before they hatch" and you'd be amazed how many do this and then get behind in their bills! DON"T buy/lease that vehicle if you're not already making enough to fund it or have enough guaranteed work/income that it is an asset rather than a liability.

Another problem is that people don't want to "make a profit in order to minimise the tax". But don't see the need to have a back-up fund to even out the ups and downs. I'd rather pay a bit more GST and tax and have the security of a healthy bank balance, that way I can take advantage of opportunities arising, or cover a lean month' expenses.

[Ocean1]

One of the biggest contributors to failure is that people spend in advance, counting on business growth or potential growth to fund their spending.

That's deserving of bankruptcy.

What's less so is failure to foresee, understand and survive the huge tax wave you generate in the first 12 - 18 months.

This country is seriously and perversely unfriendly to start-up businesses.

[R-Soul]

Which is good, and I would do the same, this however impacts on the margins and therefore when the worker wants a pay rise he aint going to get one, Margin is what we all live on, all of us no margin = no money, no money to pay wages or grow business.
Prices driving down down down, will result in lower wages
Importing privately and by passing the importer will also do the same, lower wages to the point where we are importing the lower wages from the outside world.
Meantime we all want more and more out of a pot that is shrinking, so whats the answer ??

I think import licencing is a possibility, privately and for business, no licence no importing just like the old days !!

I dont have any other ideas, but I am sure one day something will change either by regulation or by our standard of living that we enjoy.

Its a vicious cycle the way I see it with a poor ending

No. If a business is not viable, there is no reason for the government to protect it so that consumers can bear the brunt of foolhardy entrepreneurs. The quicker we realise that the large money is to be made in the application of our intellect (to create intellectual property), and not in clipping the ticket, or the drudge work of manufacturing, the better.

We are a"first world nation" with first world education, and training. We should be the ones doing the designing and inventing, and then getting it made off shore (while protecting your target markets with patents to keep a handle on your technology) - dont swim against the current, all surfers know that. Work to your own strengths, and use the strengths of other countries to your advantage. This is commonly termed the "knowledge economy".

[rwh]

No. If a business is not viable, there is no reason for the government to protect it so that consumers can bear the brunt of foolhardy entrepreneurs.

Agreed.

The quicker we realise that the large money is to be made in the application of our intellect (to create intellectual property), and not in clipping the ticket, or the drudge work of manufacturing, the better.

We are a"first world nation" with first world education, and training. We should be the ones doing the designing and inventing, and then getting it made off shore (while protecting your target markets with patents to keep a handle on your technology) - dont swim against the current, all surfers know that. Work to your own strengths, and use the strengths of other countries to your advantage. This is commonly termed the "knowledge economy".

While I can see that that can make money (look at Microsoft), I don't like it.

The trouble with treating knowledge as property, and artificially restricting its dissemination, is that overall we end up doing more work than is necessary. If only all the producers of knowledge shared it, as is common in science, we'd all be better off - and the transfer happens both ways, so all the producers can benefit from the work of others. Sure there are some who are mostly consumers, but it doesn't actually cost the producer any more if more people consume, so who cares?

Patents are particularly evil, because they leave the second inventor with nothing, despite the fact that they've done just as much work to get there.

[edit: Our so called 'intellectual property' laws are of course just another form of government protection, which I don't see as being any more necessary than any other. The free-marketeers should be campaigning against them.]

Richard
(thinking mostly about software, because that's the industry I'm in)

[Robert Taylor]

Agreed.


While I can see that that can make money (look at Microsoft), I don't like it.

The trouble with treating knowledge as property, and artificially restricting its dissemination, is that overall we end up doing more work than is necessary. If only all the producers of knowledge shared it, as is common in science, we'd all be better off - and the transfer happens both ways, so all the producers can benefit from the work of others. Sure there are some who are mostly consumers, but it doesn't actually cost the producer any more if more people consume, so who cares?

Patents are particularly evil, because they leave the second inventor with nothing, despite the fact that they've done just as much work to get there.

[edit: Our so called 'intellectual property' laws are of course just another form of government protection, which I don't see as being any more necessary than any other. The free-marketeers should be campaigning against them.]

Richard
(thinking mostly about software, because that's the industry I'm in)

Lets turn that around a little, you do a painstaking amount of work to develop something and then rightfully you expect a return from your efforts. Someone steals your idea, has expended little or no effort and collects off it. THAT IS WRONG.
Patents are not perfect but fundamentally their principle is sound, if only to protect hard work. I am fundamentally against those who ''use'' people, the world is full of them.

[onearmedbandit]

And this all started from a little Honda cowl.

[rwh]

Lets turn that around a little, you do a painstaking amount of work to develop something and then rightfully you expect a return from your efforts. Someone steals your idea, has expended little or no effort and collects off it. THAT IS WRONG.

It's wrong by the standards we're used to now, but that's not inherently true IMHO.

Here's another way of looking at it: You put in a whole lot of work to develop something you personally have no/limited use for, expecting other people to pay for it. Is that not wrong?

The problem is in the expectation - you currently expect to have the monopoly on your idea (sorry, design - ideas aren't patentable), so you do the work based on that assumption. If you didn't have that assumption, you'd a) not do the work b) do the work because you need the result or c) do the work because someone else needs it, and they're paying you for it (for the work, not the idea/design).

If I put in some work on something I need, then if I find someone else needs it too, that's no skin off my nose. Hey, if I tell them about it and they use it, they might feel inclined to help work on it too - we both win.

Note that many people, for example, are writing software they (or their clients/employers) need and sharing the results. Everybody wins.

The whole concept of 'stealing your idea' is broken - stealing involves leaving the victim without something they had. If you learn something I know, I've lost nothing, so nothing was stolen.

I agree it's a bit of a mindset shift, but I think it's a useful one.

Patents are not perfect but fundamentally their principle is sound, if only to protect hard work. I am fundamentally against those who ''use'' people, the world is full of them.

I believe patents were introduced as a means for the government (well, royalty, at the time) to make a bit of extra money. It's a government granted monopoly, and an attack on competition. I may be muddling that with copyright, though.

Richard

[rwh]

By the way, I read quite a lot of the bucket threads, despite not racing myself. I love the way all the competitors happily share their knowledge from fork setup to expansion chambers - through cooperation, everybody learns more.

And Robert, I note that you share plenty of info yourself - you know how valuable it is.

Richard

[Max Preload]

Which is good, and I would do the same

I wouldn't. It tells me that the more expensive retailer is either trying it on or is ignorant of the commercial realities of operating in that market. Either way he doesn't deserve my money.

this however impacts on the margins and therefore when the worker wants a pay rise he aint going to get one

He doesn't need one. TVs are cheap enough now with the other retailer on the scene.

Margin is what we all live on, all of us no margin = no money, no money to pay wages or grow business.
Prices driving down down down, will result in lower wages

Meanwhile, not maintaining a check on them devalues your savings with inflation.

Importing privately and by passing the importer will also do the same, lower wages to the point where we are importing the lower wages from the outside world.
Meantime we all want more and more out of a pot that is shrinking, so whats the answer ??

Every industry suffers this. They have to have a point of difference. Bike retailers here have got complacent. Their service is shit, their prices are shit, their attitude is shit. That's not the consumer's fault. It's their own. Fuck 'em.

I think import licencing is a possibility, privately and for business, no licence no importing just like the old days !!

Fuck that. Cunts getting rich just because they hold an exclusive right to do something. It sounds just like party members in the USSR or China.

I dont have any other ideas, but I am sure one day something will change either by regulation or by our standard of living that we enjoy.

Its a vicious cycle the way I see it with a poor ending

I see it as possibly pushing the retailers to source their wares a bit more directly cutting out a few ticket clippers rather than being lazy. Just like the public are doing for themselves.

[Robert Taylor]

By the way, I read quite a lot of the bucket threads, despite not racing myself. I love the way all the competitors happily share their knowledge from fork setup to expansion chambers - through cooperation, everybody learns more.

And Robert, I note that you share plenty of info yourself - you know how valuable it is.

Richard

I dont share all of it though as I know some of my competitors read these threads. And Im not giving them knowledge that Ive painstakingly worked out on the more sensitive stuff. So thats my balance that Ive struck.

[Robert Taylor]

I wouldn't. It tells me that the more expensive retailer is either trying it on or is ignorant of the commercial realities of operating in that market. Either way he doesn't deserve my money.


He doesn't need one. TVs are cheap enough now with the other retailer on the scene.


Meanwhile, not maintaining a check on them devalues your savings with inflation.

Every industry suffers this. They have to have a point of difference. Bike retailers here have got complacent. Their service is shit, their prices are shit, their attitude is shit. That's not the consumer's fault. It's their own. Fuck 'em.


Fuck that. Cunts getting rich just because they hold an exclusive right to do something. It sounds just like party members in the USSR or China.


I see it as possibly pushing the retailers to source their wares a bit more directly cutting out a few ticket clippers rather than being lazy. Just like the public are doing for themselves.

Suffice to say you have generalised. Not all businesses are tarred with the same brush. Many of us may not like the open slather and dog eat dog mentality that now prevails but we have adapted to it.

[Woodman]

just shows that the first shop were greedy cunts, and had no problem charging far too much to the people too busy (or stupid) to shop around.
No wonder some places can offer 50% off sales & still make a profit.

Sometimes the expensive shop may not be aware that the other shop has got a better price. They may have only just put that price on. It doesn't mean they are wankers, just uninfomed at the moment. If you tell them then they know and will probarbly match or better the price. Don't take it personally.

[imdying]

The whole concept of 'stealing your idea' is broken - stealing involves leaving the victim without something they had.

The exclusive use of their hard work coming up with the idea in the first place is what is being stolen. Without it, why would I bother doing something hard like that when I could just do something easy? For fun? Hahahahahahah

[Edbear]

And this all started from a little Honda cowl.

Ain't KB fun!?

[oneofsix]

The exclusive use of their hard work coming up with the idea in the first place is what is being stolen. Without it, why would I bother doing something hard like that when I could just do something easy? For fun? Hahahahahahah

Agreed, it is a well accepted concept that secrets can be stolen, there is even trade secret law to cover it because its not always wise to patient your trade secret.