Excuses Excuses Excuses Blame Blame Blame

[The Stranger:Me]

Hang on. You were talking about you don't care if you die as you have everything sorted, now that argument has been turned around you don't like it.

"So to be sure I'm not about to consider the impact my death has on others, nor limit my actions based on this." Your words not mine.

If my crusade helps one person even think about the consequence of there actions then what is wrong with that?

The eye for an eye thing, thats what i want but we won't see that in this PC world. Its the consequence thing again see where I'm going with this?

Where did I say anything about not caring if I die. What exactly are you smoking and where did you get it?
I did say that the impact my death may have on others is not going to influence my thinking in my actions and that I'm happy that my kids will be taken care of if I do(call it responsibility). That's quite different from not caring.

Now I can see where the simple amongst you may well be tempted to consider some random possibility (a motorcycle taking out a child - I'm still waiting for the stats on this one by the way) as a credible threat. We've even had the gun nuts on KB wanting to ban motorcycles because someone could swing a claw hammer from a rope whilst riding thus killing an innocent bystander - yes, this happend on KB, go look in the gun nut threads - actually come to think of it, you'd fit right in over there, logic is not their strong point either.

The simple fact of the matter is - it doesn't happen or is so infrequent as to say it doesn't. If you really are that upset about the dangers to kiddies about 500 kids & infants die a year in NZ from real causes. Wouldn't you be better employed saving these kids from the real threats?

[Katman]

I did say that the impact my death may have on others is not going to influence my thinking in my actions

Even if the manner of your death takes the life of an innocent party?

[FJRider]

Even if the manner of your death takes the life of an innocent party?

I doubt if he plans it that way ...

[Katman]

I doubt if he plans it that way ...

I'm sure he doesn't.

It was a question for a whole lot more people than just Noel.

[FJRider]

I'm sure he doesn't.

And few cases where anybody does ... just the thought that somebody else will get hurt or killed by what they are doing ... well ... isn't thought of ...

[Katman]

And few cases where anybody does ... just the thought that somebody else will get hurt or killed by what they are doing ... well ... isn't thought of ...

Yep, refer post #124.

[Berries]

In 18 years riding. I've never made an motorcycle insurance claim. Never been in hospital or claimed ACC as result of riding motorcycle. Am sure many other riders are in the same boat. Put simply, why the fuck should I spend over a grand regoing two 70something horsepower bikes every year? Where's my fuggin no claims bonus. It's fucking bullshit.

Couldn't agree more. Apart from the 70hp bit you big girl.

[The Stranger:Me]

Even if the manner of your death takes the life of an innocent party?

Perhaps a little odd, but respect for the life of others happens to be a greater force than my desire to die. That is I'm unlikely to change my actions on account of the impact of my death on others, more likely I would be changing them out of respect for someone elses life.

Is any road death acceptable? Well obviously it is, hell it's so acceptable that we even have a target. So, anyone who uses the road must accept 2 things. You could kill and you could be killed. If you don't accept these then you best stay off of it. It's not something we set out to do (in general) but it can happen and it aint going to change. No matter how many times you bleat on about it the sad fact is people ARE going to die on the roads and some of them will die in strange and unusual circumstances.

So the possibility that it could happen (that I take out somone else whilst killing myself riding a motorcycle) can not be ruled out. But it doesn't weigh too heavily on my mind were it to I would not drive nor ride.

[racefactory]

You're really just a big fucking hypocrite Katman because of all the reasons we choose to ride a motorcycle, safety is not one of them.

Go drive a car if you're really so bent on wanting everyone to blend in with the masses like that on the road. It's the nature of motorcycles and it's been this way since time began... You label us all as fucking hoons and selfish people not responsible for our actions, why are you still riding with us then?

[DEATH_INC.]

Even if the manner of your death takes the life of an innocent party?

You do realize that I'm far more likely to kill someone in my suv than with my bike? The argument of killing someone else really doesn't stack up.

[Katman]

You do realize that I'm far more likely to kill someone in my suv than with my bike? The argument of killing someone else really doesn't stack up.

It's stacked up four times at least that I know of and is only likely to stack higher if we don't start addressing the problem of motorcyclists using the road as their personal racetrack.

How many fuckwits on motorcycles are you prepared to tolerate crossing onto your side of the road because they over-estimated their madaz skillz?

Your argument that it's ok cos it doesn't happen very often doesn't stack up.

[racefactory]

Katman, I have a question for you and I'm really not trying to wind you up. I'm only 21 and don't really understand the whole situation as it must be and in your books I'm probably one of the ones corrupting our image.

You must have been around for a long time now and seen a lot. Surely you know motorcycles have been like this since time began and the root of the problem just lies in human nature. Instead of fighting an ever losing battle... why don't you focus your efforts into doing something to provide easily accessible and cheaper track days?

I highly doubt there is really any regular member on Kiwibiker that is an example of the bad road behavior and racing attitude that you highlight. The fact of the matter is that people doing this 'racing' and painting us with this image are not going to be the ones talking about it all day on KB. Therefore I believe that if you want to combat this problem, doing something like the above suggestion would be a far more effective solution than whinging about it on here as you need to reach the message to all those who are the real ones you are meaning to target. These are the people who are not part of the community and will never set foot in this place, consequently never being educated as how to get time on the track. I believe it is suppression of this experience that is the major root of your problem having known and ridden with such road users.

I for one would be a major supporter.

[DEATH_INC.]

It's stacked up four times at least that I know of and is only likely to stack higher if we don't start addressing the problem of motorcyclists using the road as their personal racetrack.

Now THIS I object to. I've seen more riders cross the centerline cruising than going fast. I've personally had way more crashes riding to work than caning it on the open road.
Do you have figures (not one's saying speed was a factor, because they say that about all accidents), good concrete one's, to back that up?

[Katman]

Come on Andy, you're not that naive.

99% of the time when motorcyclists cross the centre line due to over-cooking a corner, whether it be on a sportsbike or on a cruiser (I've seen far too many Harley primary cases scraped to wafer thin to imagine it's only a sportsbike problem) is due to one of two reasons. Either they are so clueless they don't know how to get around corners or they are playing their own little Rossi playstation in their heads.

And for every over-cooked corner that results in death or serious injury there are another 10 that escaped by the skin of their teeth.

[Banditbandit]

TIme for the silly hats thread ...