MSL Council to be lead by Gareth Morgan

[StoneY]

Then don't expect anything to change.
Contrary to popular belief change is not brought by those who ask for it.......its brought by those whom do it.

Mate, despite some of our differences in the past, this post is GOLD

And while we might not be able to get our own way all the time, at least we are out there fucking trying hard

[Ocean1]

The RTA believed that the poor energy transfer properties of concrete barriers may be underestimated by motorcyclists, especially at higher impact angles.

They “believe” eh?

They need to break out their calculator. It’s easy, impact force is reduced by the tangent of the angle of impact. It’s also non-linear, at typical impact angles the force of impact is dramatically less.

Hit a WRB at any angle at 100 kph and you’re still going to hit the posts perpendicular to your direction of travel. That’s 100% of that force applied to your legs, spine, head. Hit a solid immovable concrete barrier at 100 kph at 12 degrees and the impact force is the same as hitting it head on at 20kph. Hurts. But it’s survivable in most instances.

The same applies to “other vehicles” also. It’s just that they DO take some small advantage from the energy absorbed incrementally over several metres. And, of course displace the WRB up to 2.5 metres in doing so.

See, decisions to install one flavour or another aren’t made by engineers with a vast base of empirical data at their fingertips. They’re made by councils more interested in immediate funding constraints. And they don’t really care much about a much reviled minority.

[Max Preload]

Then don't expect anything to change.
Contrary to popular belief change is not brought by those who ask for it.......its brought by those whom do it.

Yeah, that worked really well on the ACC levies, eh. I bet my course of action has saved me a shitload more than any of those 6000 motorcyclists who wasted their time and money on the Bikeoi.

[riffer]

Yeah, that worked really well on the ACC levies, eh. I bet my course of action has saved me a shitload more than any of those 6000 motorcyclists who wasted their time and money on the Bikeoi.

Yeah but we're still riding around aren't we?

[Katman]

And they don’t really care much about a much reviled minority.

What do you think has led to us being "much reviled"?

[avgas]

Yeah, that worked really well on the ACC levies, eh. I bet my course of action has saved me a shitload more than any of those 6000 motorcyclists who wasted their time and money on the Bikeoi.

Reread what I have written. I was not one whom wasted time on the Bikeoi.......as from my perspective it was considered as not really enough on the "doing" side.
This perspective is different to a few on here (such as Stoney, whom I respect now for other things he has done/organized)........but alas that is life.

But you have not come to the table with some kind of organized plan. You are still there complaining..........call the waaabulance.
I stand by what I say - I think your argument is valid, but unless you pull your finger out and come forward with a VALID plan forward......your just blowing steam

As for the WRB not being installed as per specifications. That is life - and it happens on a daily basis. Its not good - but once again you have to put a plan forward for that to change.
Perhaps create a "Recommended Roading Bill" and submit this to parliament (via whatever path you prefer). Stating that all equipment should be as per specified purpose. Chances are you will be heard more.

How do you thing smoking was stopped in NZ?

[RiderInBlack]

How do you thing smoking was stopped in NZ?

It hasn't. It's just causes me more paperwork as a Nurse pushing the Government Line and increased the tax the Government gets from smokers (by the way I have never been a smoker).
Back to the point, I am pleased that Motorcyclist are getting a voice via the MSL council. We & the MSL Council just have to make sure that the MSL Council does not end-up being the Government's Lap Dog Pushing the Government's line, and that they become a positive force for the well-being of Motorcycling in NZ.
By the way Riffer, good article from the Department of Transport and Regional Services (part of the Australian Transport Safety Bureau) you posted there. Technically says exactly what concerns me most about WRB's , which is the posts and even suggests how that could be improved.

[Ocean1]

What do you think has led to us being "much reviled"?

Unwarranted bad publicity generated by self flagellating chicken little impersonators?

[avgas]

Unwarranted bad publicity generated by self flagellating chicken little impersonators?

I thought it was the motorbikes?

[StoneY]

Yeah, that worked really well on the ACC levies, eh. I bet my course of action has saved me a shitload more than any of those 6000 motorcyclists who wasted their time and money on the Bikeoi.

And what course was that MP?
Sold your bike? Refused to register it?
Decided to part ways with the rest of society? What?

Whatever the cost becomes, no matter how high the levys get in the future (hopefully we LOWER them) I will always own,and ride, my motorcycles in NZ.

I am liquidating the Ducati due to the maintenance factor - not because of Levy costs, but have to admit if the levys had not been raised I wouldnt be bothered by the servicing like I am now

My mate in Germany - pays twice what I pay on all 3 of my bikes in insurance fee's annually
$1800nzd it works out to roughly for his orad user insurance costs
BUT he gets to own as many bikes as he likes and it covers him in his cage as well
Had he no motorcycles he would be paying about $300NZD so bikes are expensive in insurance costs anywhere in the world it seems
And a good thing Gareth is the Chair he rides in other countries often enough to kow the lay of the land elsewhere,and he is supporting a push to get a SINGLE levy fee for multiple bike owners

I still think we were ripped off, I still think we should be paying exactly the same as every other motorist - accross the board
But we aint.
Thats the way the cookie crumbled, and all the bleating in he world will not turn the clock back

Moving on, if in two years the other council members and I have managed to achieve any reduction injuries from MSL projects, I will be very happy, because that MIGHT get levys reduced...maybe...unlikely...but maybe

And its the only option left to us
So how about the Motorcycle community start thinking of GOOD, ecconomically viable methods to spend our MSL and quit crying over long spilt milk???

[caseye]

Could not have said it better.
Positive shit, not negative crap.

[davereid]

I still think we were ripped off, I still think we should be paying exactly the same as every other motorist - accross the board
But we aint.
Thats the way the cookie crumbled, and all the bleating in he world will not turn the clock back

Moving on, if in two years the other council members and I have managed to achieve any reduction injuries from MSL projects, I will be very happy, because that MIGHT get levys reduced...maybe...unlikely...but maybe

And its the only option left to us
So how about the Motorcycle community start thinking of GOOD, ecconomically viable methods to spend our MSL and quit crying over long spilt milk???

Im not sure we cant get parity with cars, I haven't given up that particular fight. It won't be won on safety grounds, it will be won because politicians are noticing that bikers are organised, intelligent, and wont just back down, and we need to keep that pressure up.

These policies are argued using statistics, but if the politican feels the pressure he will vote to keep his job.

However, I could not agree more, that the MSL has arrived, and we have to get used to it.

Id like to see some of it used to get it added to car regos. After all, they cause around 50% of motorcyclists collision related injuries.

If you pay rego, you contribute, and we have to get involved and make sure it is used well.

Top marks to those who have stood up and said they will help.

[Smifffy]

Parity with cars is more likely, IMO, to come from further increases in the car rego, rather than a reduction in bike ones.

Reducing the levy is about as likely as returning GST to 10% I reckon.

[Fatt Max]

Moving on, if in two years the other council members and I have managed to achieve any reduction injuries from MSL projects, I will be very happy, because that MIGHT get levys reduced...maybe...unlikely...but maybe

And its the only option left to us
So how about the Motorcycle community start thinking of GOOD, ecconomically viable methods to spend our MSL and quit crying over long spilt milk???

Thats what we all hope for. Like it or lump it, the MSL is there. It should not be, it should never be but it is.

If, as a community, we can reduce the (albeit flawed) statistics that the levy increases were based on in the first place by a combination of self responsibility, duty of care, lobbying and protest as well as the work done by those charged with watching the MSL, then we will have achieved something.

That achievement, I believe, will then need to be rewarded.

The reward MUST be the reduction in the unfair levy increases. I see no way out for the policy makers if we prove that to them. All we need to do is keep the foot on the throat of the pollies and hold them to account.

Yes, the levies, MSL, all of it should NOT be there but surely now we must bind as community, get ourselves straight and keep fighting the fight.

A good read of Sun Tzu's 'Art of War' would put a bit of perspective on how this battle needs to be fought.

But hey, what the fuck do I know...

[MSTRS:Me]

If, as a community, we can reduce the (albeit flawed) statistics that the levy increases were based on in the first place by a combination of self responsibility, duty of care, lobbying and protest as well as the work done by those charged with watching the MSL, then we will have achieved something.

That achievement, I believe, will then need to be rewarded.

Hear hear. BUT...
We were up against a polly with an agenda. An agenda that was to be realised any way possible, including deeply flawed stats and outright lies. Why would we think that reducing the deaths/injuries will change anything?
Playing Devil's Advocate here...