Do MNZ officials have to conform to rules?

**CHOPPA** · 31st January 2011, 21:29

Just a thought after a couple of instances that happened on the weekend. Is there anything a rider can do if they are hindered by an official acting outside the rules?

I dont even know what the actual ruling is but it pissed me off no less, I stopped in the pits on the warm up lap to do something to my bike. The MNZ official wouldnt release me or Nick Cole onto the track because he felt our tyres were not warm enough?? After we had finished arguing the pack was around the 3rd turn!! This didnt effect my result so I never took it any further.

The other was an incident I heard about involving Luke Burkhart at Woodville getting disqualified by jumping the start. Now im not sure of the ruling etc or the circumstances around Lukes incident but it got me thinking is there any thing a competitor could do about such an incident? Lets say an official cocked up and gave say Andrew Stroud a black flag by mistake while he is leading a race, could he protest and take the win still even after the first lap???

**oyster** · 31st January 2011, 22:05

The commment about warm/cold tyres sounds a bit odd but I do know Levels is a place where pitlane starts have to be carefully managed. Normally a "release" from pitlane to join a race occurs only after ALL the feild have cleared turn 2, (which is very close to 3) It's because there is no "lead in" lane exiting the pit, and someone starting from pitlane could easily get to the exit of turn 2 before the leaders, who have to negotiate 1 and 2 (unlike the pitlane starter)

And your real question. Yes they do (have to conform to the rules), but they're fallible ,human and volunteers. But sometimes when they don't, as with the penalties given out to the jump start riders at Manfeild last year, an appeal can correct it.

**Ronin** · 31st January 2011, 23:46

Don't quote me on this but my understanding is that if you cam into pit lane on the warm up lap then you would start from pit lane. Up to you to have your bike sorted before the start. Many is the rider who cries like a baby if they wait on the grid while johnny come lately circulates around to form up.

Pretty sure a complaint has to be laid with the MNZ Steward within 2 hours of the finish of the meeting for it to be heard.

**suzuki21** · 1st February 2011, 04:48

Originally Posted by Ronin

Don't quote me on this but my understanding is that if you cam into pit lane on the warm up lap then you would start from pit lane. Up to you to have your bike sorted before the start. Many is the rider who cries like a baby if they wait on the grid while johnny come lately circulates around to form up.

Pretty sure a complaint has to be laid with the MNZ Steward within 2 hours of the finish of the meeting for it to be heard.

I have to agree, I believe that there were 2 warm up laps but tough titties.

**CHOPPA** · 1st February 2011, 06:13

Originally Posted by suzuki21

I have to agree, I believe that there were 2 warm up laps but tough titties.

I didnt mind starting from pit lane but he was not even going to let us start from pit lane because we had cold tyres. Even though they had been on the warmers for 2 hours. We just took off.

As I said it didnt effect my result as I was still having problems for the first lap of the race but if it had caused me a problem and I had protested where would it have got me?

If it was deemed he held me up for 10 seconds could I have got 10 secs taken off my race time???

**Grumph** · 1st February 2011, 06:22

Originally Posted by CHOPPA

I didnt mind starting from pit lane but he was not even going to let us start from pit lane because we had cold tyres. Even though they had been on the warmers for 2 hours. We just took off.

As I said it didnt effect my result as I was still having problems for the first lap of the race but if it had caused me a problem and I had protested where would it have got me?

If it was deemed he held me up for 10 seconds could I have got 10 secs taken off my race time???

Possibly.....the steward doesn't run the meeting, the club appointed officials do that.
The steward has juristiction over them as well as the competitors. He has quite a wide latitude as far as on the spot penalties go.
Oyster's right about the pit lane exit at Levels but the official's reason for trying to hold you is odd.....first approach should have been to the rider's rep.

**suzuki21** · 1st February 2011, 07:35

Yes, riders rep definetly. Was there anything in supplementary regs or riders breifing? Bit late to moan now and just wind up people so they think officials and voluntary helpers are arseholes.
Why ask/complain on the internet rather than follow procedure which is in your rule book? Im sure you would have got an answer within 1/2hr while at the track if you went the right way about it.
Or you could have had a small off track excursion on lap one, run out to the middle of the track, layed down and acted unconcious, and forced a restart like a guy in AMA did a few years ago. (He got suspended for a year though as it was caught on video)

**CHOPPA** · 1st February 2011, 07:55

Originally Posted by suzuki21

Yes, riders rep definetly. Was there anything in supplementary regs or riders breifing? Bit late to moan now and just wind up people so they think officials and voluntary helpers are arseholes.
Why ask/complain on the internet rather than follow procedure which is in your rule book? Im sure you would have got an answer within 1/2hr while at the track if you went the right way about it.
Or you could have had a small off track excursion on lap one, run out to the middle of the track, layed down and acted unconcious, and forced a restart like a guy in AMA did a few years ago. (He got suspended for a year though as it was caught on video)

The reason I didnt bring it up at the track is because I saw Nick Cole bring up some safety concerns at riders briefing and he got publicly abused by stewards and officials. I wasnt going to gain anything by bringing it up so why not bring it up on here?

**CHOPPA** · 1st February 2011, 08:04

Originally Posted by suzuki21

.
Or you could have had a small off track excursion on lap one, run out to the middle of the track, layed down and acted unconcious, and forced a restart like a guy in AMA did a few years ago. (He got suspended for a year though as it was caught on video)

Why would you suggest such a stupid idea? You must be a voluntare?

**CHOPPA** · 1st February 2011, 08:08

Originally Posted by Grumph

Possibly.....the steward doesn't run the meeting, the club appointed officials do that.
The steward has juristiction over them as well as the competitors. He has quite a wide latitude as far as on the spot penalties go.
Oyster's right about the pit lane exit at Levels but the official's reason for trying to hold you is odd.....first approach should have been to the rider's rep.

Actually it must have been an official

Riders Rep! I never gave him a thought, cheers

**CHOPPA** · 1st February 2011, 08:16

I cant find anything in the rulebook that explains any rules around starting from pit lane?

**k14** · 1st February 2011, 08:18

Originally Posted by CHOPPA

The reason I didnt bring it up at the track is because I saw Nick Cole bring up some safety concerns at riders briefing and he got publicly abused by stewards and officials. I wasnt going to gain anything by bringing it up so why not bring it up on here?

You would have been fine to bring things up with the officials. The reason Nick was abused by officials was the manor in which he was acting towards them. That wall has been there since day dot and he has raced there for the 6 or 7 years with no protection there and then 20 mins before riding is supposed to start he starts complaining about it. Valid concern but the only outcome was the meeting being called off.

I saw you being held back and thought it was a bit long. At riders briefing on Saturday they said you would be held till all bikes passed the pit exit and then you would be allowed to join the race. What a totally ridiculous reason for not allowed to join the race. What if you went out on the warm up lap with completely cold tyres? Would they stop you then?

**CHOPPA** · 1st February 2011, 08:23

Originally Posted by k14

You would have been fine to bring things up with the officials. The reason Nick was abused by officials was the manor in which he was acting towards them. That wall has been there since day dot and he has raced there for the 6 or 7 years with no protection there and then 20 mins before riding is supposed to start he starts complaining about it. Valid concern but the only outcome was the meeting being called off.

I saw you being held back and thought it was a bit long. At riders briefing on Saturday they said you would be held till all bikes passed the pit exit and then you would be allowed to join the race. What a totally ridiculous reason for not allowed to join the race. What if you went out on the warm up lap with completely cold tyres? Would they stop you then?

Yeah it certainly wasnt a good reason and my understanding was that once the riders were safely passed the pit lane exit then we could go. I think that official was just on a power trip.

Apparently if your a voluntare it doesnt matter though.....???

It would have done me no good to bring it up at the track anyway but if I did really what could have been done?

**Ronin** · 1st February 2011, 08:24

Originally Posted by CHOPPA

I cant find anything in the rulebook that explains any rules around starting from pit lane?

Officials are required to ensure the safety of everyone and have pretty broad powers on what they can do. There isn't an official I know that wouldn't have held you in pit lane if you came in on your warm up. Believe it or not, the meeting isn't all about you.

If you get a chance, ask if you can sit in race control for a whole race and pay attention. You may understand exactly what goes on then.