Whine about something, just because you can.

**wysper** · 1st February 2011, 08:39

Originally Posted by Milts

That is beyond retarded.

I would think it would depend on what kind of gambler you are. Sure you could carry on and go for more, or maybe you just want to take what you have. The bird in the hand scenario.

I would be a crap gambler for lots of reasons, one is I don't like to lose my money, two I get bored and do stupid things and three (probably the biggest one) I don't know the odds.

Things like being priced in, don't even know what the hell that means, betting out of position etc, I like watching texas holdem and would play for fun, but if I was playing for money I would be quickly broke.

Thanks for calling me retarded though.

**Drunken Monkey** · 1st February 2011, 10:22

Originally Posted by Milts

Poker is a skill game.

The odds are easily learnt, the cards you get dealt are all down to luck. The real skill is being able to read people, and you don't get that when playing online.

**Milts** · 1st February 2011, 15:54

Originally Posted by Drunken Monkey

The odds are easily learnt, the cards you get dealt are all down to luck. The real skill is being able to read people, and you don't get that when playing online.

This is absolutely incorrect. Only a small part of 'reads' comes from watching someones face. Many professional players don't advertise this fact, because it leads to players focusing on hiding their face and ignoring all the other tells or leaks in their game.

If you really want to know why poker is a skill game, see the TLDR text below.

Example: You've been playing with someone for an hour, and seen them call many more bets than the average player. You are playing a pot with them and hold the nuts (or a hand you have reason to believe is better than theirs). Based on their earlier play you bet huge instead of small - they call, you make more money than a different player would in your position. Your decision just turned it into a skill game instead of a luck one.

Example two: You hold Ace of hearts (Ah) and the five of hearts (5h) on a King Seven Three board with two hearts - eg Kh 7h 3d

Your opponent bets after raising preflop. You strongly suspect they have a pair of kings at least (based on the fact that they don't often bet, therefore when they do they are more likely to have a hand). If they are the type of player mentioned in example one, you should call with your overcard and flush draw - any heart and maybe any ace will give you a better hand, but that only happens, say, 40% of the time. BUT when it does happen, you can bet large and they will call, because they are a calling station - so it's profitable for you to draw to your flush.
If instead of seeing them call a lot, you see them fold a lot, you could raise all in here - they will fold most of the time, and when they do you win outright. When they call you will win some and lose some - but on average you will be profitable, because you win 100% of the time that they fold and 40% of the time that they call. Sure sometimes they have KK, your flush misses and you lose - but more often they have KJ and fold, or 77 and you hit your flush.
If they are a tight player who rarely folds and rarely bets, then they probably a) have a strong hand and b) are not going to fold but c) may be scared into folding if another heart comes. In this case you can't make a profit by raising, can't make a profit by calling, and so folding is the best option. Many players won't realise this, will incorrectly draw to their flush, and will lose money (on average) because of it.

Reads are mostly based on viewing playing habits, not facial expressions. There is software you can buy which monitors the tables you are playing and tells you what % of the time people raise, what % of the time they bet the flop, and what % of the time they have the best hand when called at showdown etc (and thus implicitely what % of the time they are bluffing). You can see how observing player's habits makes all the difference to the game...

Tournaments are different again - the value of your chips is dictated by a) how many you have and b) how many other people have. E.g. 3 players left, you have 5000 chips, another player has 70000 and the third has 100 - you are nearly guaranteed at least second place. As a result, you should be folding a lot more to player 2, even marginally profitable hands) rather than risk losing before player 3 is eliminated.
If the stacks change to 5k, 10k, 5k then you shouldn't be folding marginally profitable hands - you need to take any edge you can get over player 3 in the hopes of coming second.

Many people don't recognise facts such as those described above. That is why a small percentage of players continually win over insane sample sizes (millions and millions of hands), while other players lose over the long run, although they may have the occasional short term win (hot run of cards). These are usually the people claiming it's rigged, or that it's not a skill game.

TLDR: poker is immensely complex and often misunderstood. Read the strategy forums on forumserver.twoplustwo.com for more.

And yes, I'm working late and the library is quiet so I really have nothing better to do.

**Gone Burger** · 1st February 2011, 16:03

Originally Posted by theblackstig

Anything pissed y'all off today?

Yep - Spent $800 on new advertising on my property I am selling for 3 weeks of published advertising, and $500 on the garden to make it look gorgeous again. Place is looking the best it ever has and is simply stunning. I am no longer living there but cleaning up someone elses mess each week for the open homes. Agent called to say that no one came through the open home AGAIN - after a big price drop, below GV, new advertising and looking like a fricken show home. Been on the market 9 months now, and that news just pissed me off!

**Gareth123** · 2nd February 2011, 03:15

It's really hot, I've had no sleep and I'm about to go and work in a really hot bakery. BTW I'm outta deoderant and I have no money for more until payday Thursday.

**marie_speeds** · 7th February 2011, 11:08

On way to work (in car) this morning right indicator started clicking fast so knew I had a lamp out... so at roundabout used indicator to go right with hand signal and still got cut off FFS. The guy gave me this real blank look like "why are you sticking your arm straight out of the window?"

**scumdog** · 7th February 2011, 11:13

Originally Posted by theblackstig

in english, my straight got beaten by a 7 to 1 outsider full house

You have my kind of 'luck'.

**avgas** · 7th February 2011, 11:49

I am bored at work.
Bike is parked at home.

rant over.

**Oscar** · 7th February 2011, 12:05

I backed the Phoenix to bet Adelaide at $7 for $20 and score the first goal at $3.85 for $10. I almost backed Newcastle to draw with the Arse but I figured that was pushing my luck...

**Latte** · 7th February 2011, 12:23

My wife doesn't understand why one bike isn't enough. And why I can't do Track riding or Dirt Riding or mountain bike riding.

Luckily she doesn't stop me.

**Hawkeye** · 7th February 2011, 17:15

Originally Posted by Oscar

I backed the Phoenix to bet Adelaide at $7 for $20 and score the first goal at $3.85 for $10. I almost backed Newcastle to draw with the Arse but I figured that was pushing my luck...

Just think what odd's you could have got for a draw after 26mins

**Oscar** · 7th February 2011, 17:20

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Just think what odd's you could have got for a draw after 26mins

Jeez, I never thought of that....
Oh well, I did watch the last 20 minutes of the Wolves - United game

**Usarka** · 10th February 2011, 21:02

You bastards I'd never played online poker until i read this thread. Been on fulltilt a bit since then

Don't know the lingo but just had a hand with JJ on the flop (QT9) the other dude all-in'd but i had hunch he was bluffing......but fucker had QQ.

But I scored a flush on the last card. Phew.

You all suck.

**Eyegasm** · 11th February 2011, 13:42

Originally Posted by Drunken Monkey

The odds are easily learnt, the cards you get dealt are all down to luck. The real skill is being able to read people, and you don't get that when playing online.

Poker is a game of incomplete information, those that can pick up on tells (all of them, not just facial/body tells) will come out better off.

Originally Posted by Milts

TLDR: poker is immensely complex and often misunderstood. Read the strategy forums on forumserver.twoplustwo.com for more.

And yes, I'm working late and the library is quiet so I really have nothing better to do.

Or what he said.

Seems Milts understands the game more than most.

Obviously read the Harrington series?