Motorcycle Safety Advisory Council (Ex Motorcycle Safety Levy Establishment Group)

[NONONO]

I am aware that the Mods may move this thread into another, less well viewed board. However, I hope they do not. I would suggest it has relevance to all things motorcycling and should be seen by as many as possible...but that's just my opinion.

I would like to ask the members of the newly named Motorcycle Safety Advisory Group (the old MSL establishment group) on what mandate have they, as individuals, been appointed to this council?
Now that you will be paid a wage, or stipend, who do you represent?
If you have all been appointed (as is the case with Gareth Morgan supposedly) as individual citizens with expert knowledge of the issue, then I suppose you can, in good conscience, take the money as payment for services rendered to the government.
If, however, you have been appointed on the basis that you "Represent" certain motorcycle organizations (BRONZ, Ulysses, MNZ etc), then I would suggest that you have little right to your wages, which should belong to your respective, not for profit, organizations.
Do you intend to publish the amount you are being paid?
Do you intend to inform the public, how many votes (members) you represent individually?

[riffer]

If, however, you have been appointed on the basis that you "Represent" certain motorcycle organizations (BRONZ, Ulysses, MNZ etc), then I would suggest that you have little right to your wages, which should belong to your respective, not for profit, organizations.

This comment would have validity if members of those organisations were paid members, doing this for a job. As they are unpaid voluntary members of these organisations I suggest the payment is for their INDIVIDUAL services rendered. The individuals were chosen INDIVIDUALLY BY THE MINISTER because HE BELIEVED that they would do the best by motorcyclists, not because of any advocacy by the representative motorcycling groups. There is one odd one out, the member of AA, who was added after extensive lobbying by the Automobile Association.

However all members are there as individuals.

What's your point?

Do you intend to publish the amount you are being paid?

What does it matter to you? Look up in ACC's annual reports for what they pay consultants for meetings. This will give you an idea. It's not an unreasonable amount IMO.

Again, what's your point?

Do you intend to inform the public, how many votes (members) you represent individually?

Each member gets one vote. Look at each member's organisation's annual reports if you want to know how many members there are. However, as I have already indicated, given that each member is there not to represent their organisation but due to their individual abilities, it's neither here nor there.

I think you're trying to put a spin on things that really isn't there mate.

[NONONO]

Your loyalty to your friend is commendable Riffer, I have yet to post on this matter without your immediate response. However, I believe I asked the question to those who have been invited onto the Motorcycle Safety Advisory Council (latterly known as the Motorcycle Safety Levy Establishment Group), as far as I know, you are not one of this fortunate group.

I ask these questions because;

1. I make no secret of my opposition to the MSL, and the MSL EG and now the MSAC, and I would like to find out as much as I can about it's workings.

2. I am genuinely interested in the questions raised as they bring up constitutional and moral questions.

I believe your answers are tenuous at best, certainly opinion rather than fact.

I am suggesting no wrong doing, but believe the representatives of the various motorcycle bodies (if that IS how they were chosen to be on the committee) may be unwise take payment as "Representatives".
The rather strange assumption that they can be paid not as "Representatives" but as individuals, only holds true if they where not selected for the committee as a result of being a representative of a motorcycle organization.

[riffer]

I asked the question to those who have been invited onto the Motorcycle Safety Advisory Council (latterly known as the Motorcycle Safety Levy Establishment Group), as far as I know, you are not one of this fortunate group.

Yeah well, good luck mate. AFAIK, the only regular KB member of the MSAC is Brent, and he's either off riding his bike or spending time with his kids right now, so you're just going to have to be patient.

I can't see his answer being too different to mine though. They were selected as individuals who happen to be representatives of motorcycling organisations first, rather than as representing those organisations views. I certainly can talk for Brent here, as he had a long talk with members of BRONZ Wellington Executive (of which I am part of) before accepting the Minister's invitation, and according to the MSAC rules, is forbidden from taking part in ANY submissions which BRONZ may submit (at least at the BRONZ level).

I hope that helps a bit. AFAIK these rules apply to other MSAC members.

[Katman]

I ask these questions because.......

You sure it's not just because you're a whinging unionist pom who's not happy unless he's trying to stir up shit?

[NONONO]

You sure it's not just because you're a whinging unionist pom who's not happy unless he's trying to stir up shit?

Pretty sure, you ugly midget.

[Ratti]

My understanding is that only Morgan is being paid for his time. I am pretty sure none of the others are.

KB is probably not the best place to put this question forward as I think Brent is the only poster who is also on the panel. There is probably somewhere to write and request this information, dont know where you'd start looking tho.

Could possibly be others who are curious about the same question. Why dont you find out the information through the appropriate channel and post it here so those who are interested can read it.

[riffer]

My understanding is that only Morgan is being paid for his time. I am pretty sure none of the others are.

No. Old news Ratti. On Weds it was announced to MSAC members that they would be paid per meeting, on standard ACC rates. It's an ACC thing. You're not allowed to work for ACC for free apparently.

[riffer]

Pretty sure, you ugly midget.

Better watch it with the ugly midget stuff. Stoney's liable to smack you upside the head mate.

[Ratti]

No. Old news Ratti. On Weds it was announced to MSAC members that they would be paid per meeting, on standard ACC rates. It's an ACC thing. You're not allowed to work for ACC for free apparently.

OMG....

Then that information will be available and op can access it and let the rest of us know. Sweet!

[phill-k]

Brent has already posted on this in another thread, I'm tending to wonder about how this has been set up as well, Brent's been up front about his views and who he represents, but Morgan has never headed a motorcycle organisation his only contribution to the ACC argument was a comment on the TVNZ 7 channel about born again riders not being able to handle new bikes and being the cause of the big increase in ACC motorcycle costs, he seems to have been given a "job for the boys" position, wonder how he gets on knowing that his position and wealth all comes from his son, he was just a shitty arsed economist who pokes shit at those running kiwisaver schemes when his own scheme rates in the bottom 50%.

[NONONO]

Better watch it with the ugly midget stuff. Stoney's liable to smack you upside the head mate.

What he gets upset when someone tells Katman the truth does he?
And Riffer, the day I start worrying about threats of violence from you and your mates is the day I'll stop riding pal....

[StoneY]

Bah, load of crap

[Smifffy]

EM-Sack

lol

[Squiggles]

...

This gets old real quick