Low road toll

[MSTRS:Me]

If what I say offends you so much, I suggest you make use of the natty little feature on KB called "ignore". You may need to ask someone (else) how to do it.
In the meantime, I'll just repeat the pertinent part of my first reply to you...
Fuck off, knobend.

[red mermaid]

So eloquent, and I would suggest an example of how you can't back up anything you say and resort to the gutter when challenged.

If what I say offends you so much, I suggest you make use of the natty little feature on KB called "ignore". You may need to ask someone (else) how to do it.
In the meantime, I'll just repeat the pertinent part of my first reply to you...
Fuck off, knobend.

[scracha]

And you make this claim with "NO claims as to the reasons/whose fault - just the facts. Locals have complained for years and a rider has now been killed there."

For all you know it may have been nothing to do with the intersection.

Hey wait a minute, the boys and girls in blue, ACC, Transit, etc are always making assumptions without all the facts. Case in point, low road toll being attributed to anti-speeding campaign.

Oh and accident caused by non speeding motorcyclist swerving to avoid car pulling out in front of him at intersection...according to newspaper...but they can be wrong so we won't make any assumptions.

[Latte]

I see that 6 years of complaints to the local council and NZTA wasn't enough to get something done about what was described as a dangerous intersection on Hobsonville Rd. Now a rider has been killed there (no idea of the circumstances, mind) tptb are promising to 'sort it out'.
It's a pity that it takes a death (at least) to get some of this stuff done, but over time we are seeing better intersection design - that must help too.

Sounds like the Intersection at Hobby shops reading where the diversions were put in, once the motorway bypass is through and the traffic reduces a roundabout would be the best bet there imo (But I'm not a traffic engineer or anything). Right turns out of there are a bitch.

[MSTRS:Me]

Sounds like the Intersection at Hobby shops reading where the diversions were put in, once the motorway bypass is through and the traffic reduces a roundabout would be the best bet there imo (But I'm not a traffic engineer or anything). Right turns out of there are a bitch.

That was the comment (amongst others) that I read. It was on last night's TV News and in this morning's paper/s. The bike, 'a newly rebuilt classic Moto-Guzzi', went under an SUV.
Somehow, I doubt it is the only incident on that intersection, if people have been complaining about it being dangerous. Sad that it takes a death to get the relevant authorities off their arses....well, at least talking about getting off their arses.

[steve_t]

Hey wait a minute, the boys and girls in blue, ACC, Transit, etc are always making assumptions without all the facts. Case in point, low road toll being attributed to anti-speeding campaign.

Oh and accident caused by non speeding motorcyclist swerving to avoid car pulling out in front of him at intersection...according to newspaper...but they can be wrong so we won't make any assumptions.

Car pulling out in front of a motorcyclist?! Non-speeding?!

[BoristheBiter]

That was the comment (amongst others) that I read. It was on last night's TV News and in this morning's paper/s. The bike, 'a newly rebuilt classic Moto-Guzzi', went under an SUV.
Somehow, I doubt it is the only incident on that intersection, if people have been complaining about it being dangerous. Sad that it takes a death to get the relevant authorities off their arses....well, at least talking about getting off their arses.

there are so many intersections around the country that could fall under the same category. In the end it is driver error, not the intersection that causes these problems. Sure there could be something done to make it better, you could even put lights in, but you will still get driver error.

I'm not really having a go but maybe you should be more concerned about driver education more than what a road does because a road has never pulled out in front of me before.

[scracha]

there are so many intersections around the country that could fall under the same category. In the end it is driver error, not the intersection that causes these problems. Sure there could be something done to make it better, you could even put lights in, but you will still get driver error.

I'm not really having a go but maybe you should be more concerned about driver education more than what a road does because a road has never pulled out in front of me before.

Crash barriers and trees don't pull out in front of people either but as motorcyclists, a hell of a lot of us manage to hit them all by ourselves.

Sure, probably 99% of accidents out there are caused by driver error. However, we're all human beings. Humans make mistakes. Driver training is only part of the answer as all the training & education in the world won't stop people making mistakes. Mistakes should be mitigated as much as possible as making a simple mistake shouldn't result in the loss of someones life. More enlightened (or just wealthier) countries such as in Scandinavia do this by analysing risky junctions, slipper surfaces and assessing what's likely to make people go spat when they go off the road.

If a particular junction has injured/killed multiple people who've made or been victims of mistakes then we still need to do something about it. Thus crash barriers, cheese wire removal, better lighting at intersections, roundabouts, better road surfaces, etc etc. Despite previous warnings, nothing was done about the intersection this chap became another unfortunate statistic on and I'll betchya $100 nobody at that Council concerned will get so much as a finger waggled at them.

[miloking]

So OK what has caused the road toll to come down??

So far we have price of fuel, thats a crock ........

Are you sure that prices of petrol have nothing to do with the low road toll?

Kinda strange that this is whats happening in USA as well...

http://jalopnik.com/#!5788159/us-dot...eyve-ever-been


Damn... that anti-speeding and safety campaign police and ACC came up with is so good it works all the way in USA!

Thank you so much Judith Colins and Nick Smith...you are saving lives all over the globe for sure...

(and i better slow down and wear mi hi-viz then......bugger i hate to admit i was wrong all along!)

[BoristheBiter]

Crash barriers and trees don't pull out in front of people either but as motorcyclists, a hell of a lot of us manage to hit them all by ourselves.

Sure, probably 99% of accidents out there are caused by driver error. However, we're all human beings. Humans make mistakes. Driver training is only part of the answer as all the training & education in the world won't stop people making mistakes. Mistakes should be mitigated as much as possible as making a simple mistake shouldn't result in the loss of someones life. More enlightened (or just wealthier) countries such as in Scandinavia do this by analysing risky junctions, slipper surfaces and assessing what's likely to make people go spat when they go off the road.

If a particular junction has injured/killed multiple people who've made or been victims of mistakes then we still need to do something about it. Thus crash barriers, cheese wire removal, better lighting at intersections, roundabouts, better road surfaces, etc etc. Despite previous warnings, nothing was done about the intersection this chap became another unfortunate statistic on and I'll betchya $100 nobody at that Council concerned will get so much as a finger waggled at them.

Why don't we just put foam mats around anything hard, wrap us all up in cotton wool, and restrict all vehicles to walking speed, cut down anything 100m either side of the road? that should stop shit loads of deaths and crashes. And after all that you will still get crashes.

Its called personal responsibly and is an topic that has gone back and forth since before I was here and I'm sure it will carry on well after I'm gone.

Which part of Scandinavia are you referring to and what the fuck does wealth have to to do with enlightenment?

[BoristheBiter]

Are you sure that prices of petrol have nothing to do with the low road toll?

No, but then like I said I only live in Auckland, what happens in the rest of the country could be completely different.
The news is going on about more people using public transport and less people on the roads but i have yet to see it.
Sure maybe there are less cars on the roads, but are these the ones that would have crashed if they were using them.
There are just too many variables to take into consideration to make the blanket statement of "the fuel price is the reason".

[MSTRS:Me]

There are just too many variables to take into consideration to make the blanket statement of "the fuel price is the reason".

Correct. Other posters have suggested a variety of possible reasons.
Any of which, in isolation, or combined with one or more others, could be having this effect (lowered road toll). That was where my suggestion about 'safer' intersections came in.

Another local example is the HB Expressway/Meeanee Rd junction...busy 100kph road crossed by a busy 50kph road. A fatal there almost every year. Locals screamed for something to be done about it. Authorities 'listened' and replaced the Give Way with a Stop. Several fatals later, and locals still screaming "Do something!!" and lights were installed. More fatals, and the authorities did nothing. Until 5 drunk teenagers ran the red, and were taken out by a B-train. Work began almost immediately on a fly-over/cloverleaf. Prangs of any sort just don't happen there anymore.

Which brings me back to the point of my original post...
There are intersections that are dangerous, or are perceived as dangerous by the users. However, they are being 'fixed'. Eventually. Which must help with the overall road toll.
Unfortunately, it is dollar-driven, and the much-vaunted (maligned?) cost-benefit ratio is measured in terms of human lives.

Of course, virtually all crashes are due to some sort of human error. But I doubt that any of us would think that the motoring public is suddenly making less mistakes? Any more than we believe the cops' stories of 'enforcement is working'.

Interestingly, NZTA has a policy that guides what they do, as far as roadsides, barriers, corner alignments, etc. That is - no-one deserves to die because they made a mistake.

[BoristheBiter]

Of course, virtually all crashes are due to some sort of human error. But I doubt that any of us would think that the motoring public is suddenly making less mistakes? Any more than we believe the cops' stories of 'enforcement is working'.

Don't say that too loud, Katman maybe listening.

[BoristheBiter]

Correct. Other posters have suggested a variety of possible reasons.
Any of which, in isolation, or combined with one or more others, could be having this effect (lowered road toll). That was where my suggestion about 'safer' intersections came in.

Another local example is the HB Expressway/Meeanee Rd junction...busy 100kph road crossed by a busy 50kph road. A fatal there almost every year. Locals screamed for something to be done about it. Authorities 'listened' and replaced the Give Way with a Stop. Several fatals later, and locals still screaming "Do something!!" and lights were installed. More fatals, and the authorities did nothing. Until 5 drunk teenagers ran the red, and were taken out by a B-train. Work began almost immediately on a fly-over/cloverleaf. Prangs of any sort just don't happen there anymore.

Which brings me back to the point of my original post...
There are intersections that are dangerous, or are perceived as dangerous by the users. However, they are being 'fixed'. Eventually. Which must help with the overall road toll.
Unfortunately, it is dollar-driven, and the much-vaunted (maligned?) cost-benefit ratio is measured in terms of human lives.

Of course, virtually all crashes are due to some sort of human error. But I doubt that any of us would think that the motoring public is suddenly making less mistakes? Any more than we believe the cops' stories of 'enforcement is working'.

Interestingly, NZTA has a policy that guides what they do, as far as roadsides, barriers, corner alignments, etc. That is - no-one deserves to die because they made a mistake.

Where i agree with most of that, i still feel we have now become a nation of pass the blame. I know most don't deserve to die from making a mistake but to pass the blame onto an inanimate object that has been in place for years I feel is just wrong.

If those teenagers had killed someone else (they might of i don't know) who would you blame? I don't think it would be the intersection, it might have been a factor but not the cause but i know where you are coming from as there are many like that around here.

[MSTRS:Me]

Where i agree with most of that, i still feel we have now become a nation of pass the blame. I know most don't deserve to die from making a mistake but to pass the blame onto an inanimate object that has been in place for years I feel is just wrong.

If those teenagers had killed someone else (they might of i don't know) who would you blame? I don't think it would be the intersection, it might have been a factor but not the cause but i know where you are coming from as there are many like that around here.

Intersection design/control can and does have a big part to play in crashes that occur there. Of course, no amount of improvement (unless it is removal of the intersection) can save everyone from the mistakes they make. And I blame the drunk driver of that carful of teens. It certainly wasn't the truck driver's fault. I think the poor bastard picked up one of the teen's head to get it off the road.
However, the wisdom of having 2 busy roads intersect each other like those ones did was asking for trouble.