Rodney Hide resigns

[Smifffy]

When my parents were children they lived in houses that used coal ranges for cooking. They literally heated water up which got poured into a tub so they could take a bath. I'm not exaggerating either, I've seen both of the houses with my own eyes.

How many houses these days still have coal ranges and coppers?? Children don't get pulled out of school to go and find a job so that their family can eat either. At least, not in this country. These days starving children are almost entirely due to their parents.

I call that progress. How come you don't??

Reminds me of this quote I saw the other day:

"Today, of Americans officially designated as 'poor,' 99 percent have electricity, running water, flush toilets, and a refrigerator; 95 percent have a television, 88 percent a telephone, 71 percent a car and 70 percent air conditioning. Cornelius Vanderbilt had none of these."
--Matt Ridley

[Mental Trousers]

people want to be equal, they don't want to be the same. Everyone wants to feel there is something special about them that sets them apart but that doesn't mean they are not equal it means not the same, not a clone or a number.

Indeed. Loose use of the word equal by me.

People will change if they can see the +ve in it but because we all value different things change is difficult. Crisis often drives change, the climate change could cause a big change in society as it has in the past.

People will change if they get to keep what they've got and gain something else. They may only have history, eg this is where my fathers fathers father blah blah, but they won't give that up. Otherwise there'd be nobody left in some countries.

[oneofsix]

Indeed. Loose use of the word equal by me.



People will change if they get to keep what they've got and gain something else. They may only have history, eg this is where my fathers fathers father blah blah, but they won't give that up. Otherwise there'd be nobody left in some countries.

that last sentence could describe NZ if ACT get any power
People will give stuff up for something worth while otherwise why do they migrate. NZ's come from ancestors that were willing to risk all otherwise we wouldn't be here being as we are an immigrant nation.
That fathers fathers fathers thing causes heaps of issues especial as it tends to take on a myth quality and what the great great grandchild believes often doesn't reflect the truth or if they go back another father or two the whole story changes.

[Ocean1]

I call that progress. How come you don't??

Your parents? I grew up with those things, I remember the night cart doing his twice weekly rounds with a huge Clydsdale. And I'm not that old.

However, Mashmate might be younger. And you really have to have experienced the difference, otherwise it's just fairy stories, not real.

We don't know how lucky we are, mate. Not unless you can remember fetching water from the well on the way back from digging the spuds for tea...

[Mental Trousers]

that last sentence could describe NZ if ACT get any power
People will give stuff up for something worth while otherwise why do they migrate. NZ's come from ancestors that were willing to risk all otherwise we wouldn't be here being as we are an immigrant nation.

For those that have chosen to emigrate the gains outweigh the loses, no argument there.

That fathers fathers fathers thing causes heaps of issues especial as it tends to take on a myth quality and what the great great grandchild believes often doesn't reflect the truth or if they go back another father or two the whole story changes.

For sure.

Your parents? I grew up with those things, I remember the night cart doing his twice weekly rounds with a huge Clydsdale. And I'm not that old.

However, Mashmate might be younger. And you really have to have experienced the difference, otherwise it's just fairy stories, not real.

We don't know how lucky we are, mate. Not unless you can remember fetching water from the well on the way back from digging the spuds for tea...

I'm extremely grateful I don't have to experience those things. Those tv shows where people go back in time to the 1900's to experience how their grand parents lived are pure insanity. The people that take part in those things need to be kicked in the nuts until they say they've learnt their lesson, then kicked somemore until the kicker believes them.

[Ocean1]

I'm extremely grateful I don't have to experience those things.

There's a certain nostalgia attached to the time, born more of its inherent honesty than the physical demands. Not sure how, but both rich and poor managed to exist without the concept of discretionary income, perhaps there was no recreational time in which to spend it. Life was fairer, I think. Whether or no, the fact remains your deserts were far more a function of your efforts than at any time since.

[mashman]

What I think of as the end point is only possible if everyone gets there together. It's possible to reach the last step first, but then you have to sit around and wait for everyone else to catch up. When, finally, everyone has then the entire race moves forward.

Of course, if we end up with different strains of Human then each ends up taking their own path. But each group takes the last step collectively, ie not all of the groups recombine. A bit esoteric but ....

Basically for me, what you think of as Nirvana (if I can call it that, what do you call it??) is one of the steps, not the goal.

Gotcha... I agree, apart from getting there together. I think whoever moves forwards first must do so with just about every man woman and child under no illusion that it could all go pear shaped, but are willing to take the risk. Hence I reckon it'll have to happen with with the blessing of a country full of people... it will need to be tested with the world watching... it ain't like you'd be able to keep it a secret as TPTB of every nation would need to be involved from the start. I think you'd find the catch up wouldn't take long at all... providing there's no resistance. Something i'm very skeptical about, but hopefully something that "they" wouldn't deny and wouldn't fight.

Different strains of human? that sounds interesting... do tell ...

I'd like to think of it as... "Life Jim, but not as we know it" ... I've no problem with what people will call it... likely they'll all have their own term and will label it how their "collective" decide to label it. Valhalla always sounded like a cool name though .

You and me both.

Oh to go out with a bang and not a whimper .

One thing that we learn from history is that large scale change is usually catastrophic, if not right away then later on. Maybe not for those instigating and implementing the change (think British/French/Dutch etc Colonies), but almost definitely for others caught up in those changes.

Communism didn't work, neither did Fascism and few others. They were big changes where power is centralized and everybody is equal. Mainly because people don't want to be equal and when you centralize power it just makes it easier for a small group to manipulate everything. So taking a big leap away from what we have now to what you see as the end point won't work. Until the term power is no longer relevant it has to be baby steps.

People don't react well to change either. Change means that things people are comfortable with are no longer the things they're comfortable with, they're something else.

True mate. But that's, as you say, small groups making the decision. What we're talking about has to be accepted by everyone in the country, and to a certain extent the world, well the world leaders at least. It should be our business how our country runs, in the context of "Life Jim". To that end I doubt there'd be that many problems.

As you say, we're not all born equal and that should be celebrated, not derided. Tis one of the things that really irks me about the way we live today. Snotty nosed twats looking down on people, and vice versa (yes I am guilty of those things too, although I truly wish I wasn't). What a waste I'm fed up with baby steps, it's insulting to the human race when I know how much more capable we are. Fuck there's some really smart people out there. Pooling those skills for "us" and not the money whores can only be a good thing?

Heh, fear of the unknown eh. I put no stock in it. I feel fear, but it's not what I don't know that scares me. I think people are inherently the same. It's what we know that scares us... and by default allows us to allay our fears. It's disgusting that it's used to keep the status Quo... the money market being the thing that lets countries rise or fall. As i mentioned above, the change would be very well publicised and pretty much everyone needs to buy into it. Would that make you more comfortable with the change?

[BoristheBiter]

Try using that imagination thing, it's really quite a remarkable gismo... whenever it finds a problem, it generally finds a solution too ... and if I can grasp the concept, fumb duck that I am, what's wrong with the rest of ya

... me me me ... the troll is strong with this one... you're paranoid.

I must be having a bad day as that just makes no sense what so ever.

I think it just comes down to you have much more faith in the human race than i do.

If i think me me me whats wrong with that? will you pay for all my bills? i don't think so and i don't expect you to. i expect to go to work, do a days work, get paid for it and come home and enjoy the things i have worked hard for. If my family and friends need a hand with something i am more than happy to help out if i am able to but i will not give anything, not even a thought, to someone that thinks they are entitled to sit on there arse all day and expect us to dish out money.

And there is no trolling necessary in this thread.

[Winston001]

Whether or no, the fact remains your deserts were far more a function of your efforts than at any time since.

That's a nice line. Succinct. Mind if I steal it for future use?

[mashman]

You're parents? I grew up with those things, I remember the night cart doing his twice weekly rounds with a huge Clydsdale. And I'm not that old.

However, Mashmate might be younger. And you really have to have experienced the difference, otherwise it's just fairy stories, not real.

We don't know how lucky we are, mate. Not unless you can remember fetching water from the well on the way back from digging the spuds for tea...

@ Mashmate... can I keep it

Yes I have lived in a coal fired house. The Raeburn heated the water for the radiators and the bath. I learned to treat it with respect... as I was the first back in the evening, if i didn't get the fucker revved it was a bollocking from the rest of the household for lack of hot water, warm house etc.... I also found that if you leave the dampner open and pass out after a weekend long acid fuelled bender, that the hot water tank overflows into your sisters bedroom and melts her records together, and that being rudely awakened by a SCREAMING concerened step mother really doesn't make her a bitch. Also, don't open the door when someone else has left the dampner open, it tends to engulf you in flames in a WER moment...

I've learned a billion and one other things along the way. Including, but not limited to, wood doesn't chop itself and axes don't always chop your toes off when you miss the chopping block... but getting the stitches makes you wish you'd lost the toes .

I enjoyed country living. I do know how lucky I am... but have taken way too much for granted learning my lessons. True though, first hand experience is a great educator.

[Mental Trousers]

Different strains of human? that sounds interesting... do tell ...

I'd like to think of it as... "Life Jim, but not as we know it" ... I've no problem with what people will call it... likely they'll all have their own term and will label it how their "collective" decide to label it. Valhalla always sounded like a cool name though .

When we finally get off this planet and interplanetary (or interstellar) travel is common place people born and raised their entire lives off planet will evolve along a totally different path to those that live at the bottom of a gravity well. In very low or zero gravity muscle mass is no longer needed. Large bones are no longer needed to support muscle. Weight is a hindrance and costs fuel. Joints such as elbows and knees are easily damaged etc. Imagine a race of extremely skinny people with arms and legs that look more like tentacles.

There are plenty of interesting things happening inside my head, not just economics

Oh to go out with a bang and not a whimper .

I hope to be banging away when my time cums hahaha

Heh, fear of the unknown eh. I put no stock in it. I feel fear, but it's not what I don't know that scares me. I think people are inherently the same. It's what we know that scares us... and by default allows us to allay our fears. It's disgusting that it's used to keep the status Quo... the money market being the thing that lets countries rise or fall. As i mentioned above, the change would be very well publicised and pretty much everyone needs to buy into it. Would that make you more comfortable with the change?

It's not so much fear of the unknown, more the fear of losing what they have. When people are uncomfortable or scared, they turn to the things they know and derive safety and comfort from. Big changes such as those you think are needed means that everyone has to give up their blanky or night light etc.

[mashman]

I must be having a bad day as that just makes no sense what so ever.

I think it just comes down to you have much more faith in the human race than i do.

If i think me me me whats wrong with that? will you pay for all my bills? i don't think so and i don't expect you to. i expect to go to work, do a days work, get paid for it and come home and enjoy the things i have worked hard for. If my family and friends need a hand with something i am more than happy to help out if i am able to but i will not give anything, not even a thought, to someone that thinks they are entitled to sit on there arse all day and expect us to dish out money.

And there is no trolling necessary in this thread.

I rarely do make sense and that ain't your problem . What I meant was, in response to your rose tinted specs comment, that you already have the rose tinted specs. It's up to you wether you choose to use them (and potentially torture yourself for having looked) or not, and up to you how long you decide to keep them on each day.

Possibly, but I understand why you wouldn't.

The idea is that we shouldn't have any bills to pay. As for the rest I'm pretty much with ya there.

[Ocean1]

That's a nice line. Succinct. Mind if I steal it for future use?

It fell off the back of that cart, somewhere on West Plains Rd. Help yourself.

[Winston001]

When we finally get off this planet and interplanetary (or interstellar) travel is common place people born and raised their entire lives off planet will evolve along a totally different path....

Whaddya mean "finally"? Where are you posting from? Course, things are a bit heavy around Betelgeuse at the mo so maybe our photons have slowed to you. Going out for a cruise Galactic North. Rock on.

[Winston001]

It fell off the back of that cart, somewhere on West Plains Rd. Help yourself.

Oooohhhh nearly choked with laughter on that. Was out that way today. Bling.