General bitch (oops, I mean discussion) about bikers thread

[Katman]

For fucks sake Steve, say what you mean.

Ok, at the moment we have certain motorcycling liberties (which are steadily being erroded). It is in our best interest to protect those remaining liberties by not giving the powers that be any more excuses to single us out. We can only achieve that by proving ourselves to be better than they seem to think we are.

If we continue to have the number of avoidable accidents that we are having we are simply playing straight into their hands.

[Ocean1]

Ok, at the moment we have certain motorcycling liberties (which are steadily being erroded). It is in our best interest to protect those liberties by not giving the powers that be any more excuses to single us out. We can only achieve that by proving ourselves to be better than they seem to think we are.

If we continue to have the number of avoidable accidents that we are having we are simply playing straight into their hands.

Dude, I hope you've got a B plan, 'cause you're going to need it.

The fact that they lie about the costs of those liberties should give you a clue, they don't care what the facts are, they'll single us out whatever accidents we manage to avoid.

The reality is that not only is the sort of change in behaviour you propose extremely unlikely to happen but it wouldn't protect your liberty anyway, they'd just move the goalposts like they did last time.

If you focused your attention on countering the bureaucratic bullshit used to justify the changes you'd have a better return for your effort.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Fucks sake Noel, open your eyes.

It's not about what the government thinks is best for us - it's about what Me think is best for us.

Do you want to see a reduction in motorcycle accidents or not?

I fixed that little typo for you. No need to thank me.

[flyingcrocodile46]

If you focused your attention on countering the bureaucratic bullshit used to justify the changes you'd have a better return for your effort.

[Katman]

If you focused your attention on countering the bureaucratic bullshit used to justify the changes you'd have a better return for your effort.

You focus on your brick wall.

I'm busy with my own.

[The Stranger:Me]

Ok, at the moment we have certain motorcycling liberties (which are steadily being erroded). It is in our best interest to protect those remaining liberties by not giving the powers that be any more excuses to single us out. We can only achieve that by proving ourselves to be better than they seem to think we are.

If we continue to have the number of avoidable accidents that we are having we are simply playing straight into their hands.

I'm still reading that pretty much as an exercise in accounting Steve.
Now, I know that's not exactly what you said. But by the same token I haven't heard squat from the govt specifically re the effect motorcyclists are having on our road death goals, only really on the subject of cost.
Accounting, at least to my untrained eye just seems to be about fiddling numbers. Dice them another way and the whole problem goes away. For example very many motorcyclists use the road for recreation. When rugby players fuck themselves up doing their recreation shit no one says squat. 50% of our ACC (at least) should be being paid for by the recreation fund. There, problem fixed, no government moaning, no work for katman and we all live happily ever after.
So, perhaps your energy could be better employed being directed at the appropriate problem - Government accounting. Sure there are others doing this, but they lack your special shall we say "tact" Steve.

I can't help the feeling that you are the guy trying to institute safe adventure playgrounds.
We all hate that guy (well we did at least, times have probably changed now though). It's bad enough when that guy is the government, but now we have the people taking over the roll of nanny state.
I don't want someone killing me, but I don't want saving from myself either thank you.

[Katman]

I don't want someone killing me,

He could be just around the corner on a motorcycle Noel.

A case in point is the current thread about the rider who appears gutted about writing off his motorcycle, thankful he was wearing adequate gear but doesn't seem to show the slightest degree of contrition for the fact that another motorcycle could have been coming in the other direction straight into the path of his out of control motorcycle.

Too many motorcyclists seem to lack any sense of consideration for anyone else sharing the road with them.

[The Stranger:Me]

Ok, at the moment we have certain motorcycling liberties (which are steadily being erroded). It is in our best interest to protect those remaining liberties by not giving the powers that be any more excuses to single us out. We can only achieve that by proving ourselves to be better than they seem to think we are.

If we continue to have the number of avoidable accidents that we are having we are simply playing straight into their hands.

Did you watch "Justice - what's the right thing to do?" on 7 per chance on Monday evening. Fooken awesome program!! Anyway politics was discussed and an interesting point came out of that. Aristotle maintained that politics was awesomeness and that to be awesome one therefore had to practise politics.
Why the need to practise? Politics can't be learnt from a book. It has to be experienced, it has to felt, to learn the nuances and subtleties you must do it. Just as a good guitar player can't simply read a book - or simply be shouted at or abused - to become a great guitar player.

Are accidents avoidable?
Sure, I venture to think all are - one way or another. But in my quest to be an awesome rider, I'm going to make a mistake or 2. That's the nature of the beast. No amount of shouting, screaming or badgering is going to change that. Some education may though.

First time I low sided (was at a track) I just biffed it (lots of fun actually). Second time I had more experience and held my knee out to prop the bike up - which worked till the peg snapped off. Third time, well I didn't low side, braced my knee the bike slid then hooked up. They didn't teach me that in a book (though I have read many).
Am I awesome? Shit no, but I'll keep trying and guess what, I'll probably make a mistake or 2 whilst I am - provided some well intentioned do gooder hasn't made the playground too safe.

[Katman]

Am I awesome? Shit no, but I'll keep trying and guess what, I'll probably make a mistake or 2 whilst I am - provided some well intentioned do gooder hasn't made the playground too safe.

Maybe your impression of what it is that would make you awesome is the problem Noel.

You don't have to be the fastest around a corner to be awesome.

It does help to be alive if you want to be awesome though.

[The Stranger:Me]

He could be just around the corner on a motorcycle Noel.

A case in point is the current thread about the rider who appears gutted about writing off his motorcycle, thankful he was wearing adequate gear but doesn't seem to show the slightest degree of contrition for the fact that another motorcycle could have been coming in the other direction straight into the path of his out of control motorcycle.

Too many motorcyclists seem to lack any sense of consideration for anyone else sharing the road with them.

Yeah, I'll give you that, and confess I don't have an answer. But I'm still not prepared to throw the baby out with the bath water just yet.

To be honest, I know it's kind of brutal but I have an philosophy.
People die on the roads. We all know this and whether we like it or not we all accept it. We may not think we do, but come on, if you drive on the road knowing that people die on the road how can you not accept it?
It is inevitable.

One day, one of those people may be me. I may be hit by some numpty doing stupid shit on a motorcycle. I may be hit by a car driver looking right at me whilst pulling out only to claim he didn't see me. I know this, but I still ride on the road.

Not saying I'll like it if I get hit and/or killed - or worse, but how much can I really complain? I knew the risks.

That is of course no reason to actively increase the risk or to not try and minimise them.

[Katman]

Which do you consider more 'awesome' Noel?

The fastest rider who one day fucks up a corner killing himself and the poor sod coming the other way, or the old guy who's ridden all his life and gotten a lifetime of enjoyment out of motorcycling?

[Grubber]

Did you watch "Justice - what's the right thing to do?" on 7 per chance on Monday evening. Fooken awesome program!! Anyway politics was discussed and an interesting point came out of that. Aristotle maintained that politics was awesomeness and that to be awesome one therefore had to practise politics.
Why the need to practise? Politics can't be learnt from a book. It has to be experienced, it has to felt, to learn the nuances and subtleties you must do it. Just as a good guitar player can't simply read a book - or simply be shouted at or abused - to become a great guitar player.

Are accidents avoidable?
Sure, I venture to think all are - one way or another. But in my quest to be an awesome rider, I'm going to make a mistake or 2. That's the nature of the beast. No amount of shouting, screaming or badgering is going to change that. Some education may though.

First time I low sided (was at a track) I just biffed it (lots of fun actually). Second time I had more experience and held my knee out to prop the bike up - which worked till the peg snapped off. Third time, well I didn't low side, braced my knee the bike slid then hooked up. They didn't teach me that in a book (though I have read many).
Am I awesome? Shit no, but I'll keep trying and guess what, I'll probably make a mistake or 2 whilst I am - provided some well intentioned do gooder hasn't made the playground too safe.

Shit man, that is the whole fuckin deal in a nutshell. Why don't you inscribe that on a nice piece of Kauri and have it mounted......up Katmans arse.
It may not be everyones description, but it definitely is mine.

[Grubber]

He could be just around the corner on a motorcycle Noel.

A case in point is the current thread about the rider who appears gutted about writing off his motorcycle, thankful he was wearing adequate gear but doesn't seem to show the slightest degree of contrition for the fact that another motorcycle could have been coming in the other direction straight into the path of his out of control motorcycle.

Too many motorcyclists seem to lack any sense of consideration for anyone else sharing the road with them.

and rather than promote his already great theme of gear protection , you go for the "what the fuck if" bullshit again.
If we spend all our lives going "what if" then we would still be living in the dark ages man

[Grubber]

Dude, I hope you've got a B plan, 'cause you're going to need it.

The fact that they lie about the costs of those liberties should give you a clue, they don't care what the facts are, they'll single us out whatever accidents we manage to avoid.

The reality is that not only is the sort of change in behaviour you propose extremely unlikely to happen but it wouldn't protect your liberty anyway, they'd just move the goalposts like they did last time.

If you focused your attention on countering the bureaucratic bullshit used to justify the changes you'd have a better return for your effort.

Plenty of truth in that. THe "pick on the motorcyclist" moments will be gone again soon...soon as they find someone else to pick on. Next one will be the student loans, well that's my guess anyway.

[Maha]

Which do you consider more 'awesome' Noel?

The fastest rider who one day fucks up a corner killing himself and the poor sod coming the other way, or the old guy who's ridden all his life and gotten a lifetime of enjoyment out of motorcycling?

I tend to agree in part.
If things go wrong at the track, the fault is generally with you and your actions.
On the road however, not so, very rearly would someone stick their hand up and say ''well I fucked that up didn't I''?