Labour's new policy - attack the farmers

**scissorhands** · 23rd May 2011, 11:49

Diary cows are pushed to the limit just like battery hens and pigs. Calves are taken from the girls after a day or 2 and their udders are becoming more and more ginormous.

5 years till hamburger time when they used to last 15 years as a milker.

Add pollution and tax avoidance to antibiotic laced diary food products and the industry is unsustainable and in dire need of review

**Winston001** · 23rd May 2011, 21:59

Hmmm...I'm astonished at the vitriol expressed here but maybe it's representative of the general population. Honestly, I hadn't realised the gap between people on the land and people living in cities had grown so large.

You don't see farmers building $30 million mansions and stripping $100 million from investors.

As for delinquent dairy farmers getting way with it...heard of Crafar Farms?!! Bankrupt. And what's the upshot of that? - a probable sale to Chinese interests. If people don't take a deep breath and realise the wealth they enjoy is founded upon farming/fishing/forestry - then you'll see many more foreign owners very shortly.

**Geeen** · 23rd May 2011, 22:13

Originally Posted by dhunt

You obviously don't know many farmers then aye. The ones I know drive old cars, have regular meetings with their bank managers to talk about there mortgage payments that they aren't meeting, don't ever have any regular holidays etc.

And when their machine breaks down have to renegotiate with the bank on how to pay for it. With the cost of farms these days it's a wonder farmers can actually make any profits at all.

It's funny I even know some farmers that have negative equity - so they are stuck trying to break even after 20+ years of slaving away and still have the possibility of coming out broke!!

Maybe there are some farmers that drive round in flash utes etc but ask them how many million they owe the bank and you'll find things aren't so rosy.

If the government ends up putting all these extra taxes on our farmers I suspect all our farms will end up with overseas owners because the average kiwi farmer won't be able to afford to run one.

+1
I grew up on farms, The olds would earn 50k one month and have 55k in bills, animal heath, silage, power, machine maintenence, etc. Its NOT an easy way to make a living, Up at 4 or 5 am to milk and don't stop till 7 or 8 at night 7 days a week. How many urban workers would be OK doing that?

**scissorhands** · 23rd May 2011, 22:54

Farmers are primary producers, not like many other investors and scammers. They work bloody hard, have much responsibility and commitment to many aspects of community and society (providing local spending, employment for many trades....) and as such deserve some wealth.

**jaffaonajappa** · 23rd May 2011, 23:18

Originally Posted by Geeen

+1
I grew up on farms, The olds would earn 50k one month and have 55k in bills, animal heath, silage, power, machine maintenence, etc. Its NOT an easy way to make a living, Up at 4 or 5 am to milk and don't stop till 7 or 8 at night 7 days a week. How many urban workers would be OK doing that?

+1.

I did this for two years, aged 17 to 19. As a farm hand. Harrrrd work.
I remember being a little envious of the land owners at the time. Then I grew up. Do some research people - if you have a $5 million investment, spend 100k pa on equipment, and after your wage bill have another 100k profit / drawings / income. Have you really done well? A 2% net return. Some of our bigger dairy farms - back then - had figures like this. Kinda sad compared to city-folks working on 10% returns minimum. Without doing 12 hour work days to achieve that.

**Brian d marge** · 24th May 2011, 01:20

Originally Posted by Winston001

Hmmm...I'm astonished at the vitriol expressed here but maybe it's representative of the general population. Honestly, I hadn't realised the gap between people on the land and people living in cities had grown so large.

You don't see farmers building $30 million mansions and stripping $100 million from investors.

As for delinquent dairy farmers getting way with it...heard of Crafar Farms?!! Bankrupt. And what's the upshot of that? - a probable sale to Chinese interests. If people don't take a deep breath and realise the wealth they enjoy is founded upon farming/fishing/forestry - then you'll see many more foreign owners very shortly.

Very true .,.. The wealth Was generated by the primaries , the Korean war made a few sheep farmers happy
but that was then this is now. China is busy future proofing its food/water and international relations NZ is in a great position at the moment

But we are dealing with corporations let alone countries that have vastly more money than NZ ( walmart in America had something like a 7 billion dollar PROFIT )

So as soon as money moves into dairying or the goalposts move , bang goes that revenue stream

If NZ wishes to rebuild the primaries , then IMHO , they need to be boutique and expensive ( ala NZ lamb and wines and my body )

Organic , difficult to grow , and friggen expensive ...I think kiwi farmers are very good at profit per acre , one if not the best in the world and could do very well .. but commodities are market driven , and those markets are brutal ala sheep and wool which once was the darling of the hour......

Stephen

**Okey Dokey** · 24th May 2011, 08:57

It was only a few weeks ago that dozens of farmers spent 2 weekends shoveling liquifaction silt to help people in Chch. At least 2 vanloads of baking and meals were sent up from our local community, too, which is a lot of food. We had people staying to escape from the shaking for a few days.

I would like to think that actions speak louder than words, and that perhaps the urban-rural gapped was narrowed a little by these actions.

**avgas** · 24th May 2011, 09:29

Originally Posted by Winston001

Hmmm...I'm astonished at the vitriol expressed here but maybe it's representative of the general population. Honestly, I hadn't realised the gap between people on the land and people living in cities had grown so large.

You don't see farmers building $30 million mansions and stripping $100 million from investors.

As for delinquent dairy farmers getting way with it...heard of Crafar Farms?!! Bankrupt. And what's the upshot of that? - a probable sale to Chinese interests. If people don't take a deep breath and realise the wealth they enjoy is founded upon farming/fishing/forestry - then you'll see many more foreign owners very shortly.

Tis the unfortunate affairs of things.
Unfortunately farmers were taught how to farm better, and make more money......but no one taught them how to run a business in the black.
Unfortunately when the world fell to its knees with no money, the only ones with money not only were good at solid sound investment, they were actively looking to boost their own countries by buying others key resources.
Unfortunately people had a greed for above average returns - and put their faith and money on those who promised this. Rather than those I mentioned above who invested in very slow but stable investments.
Unfortunately people believed (and still do) that buying land is a safe bet.......but the fact of the matter is if you don't have the $$$ you shouldn't buy anything......as nothing is safe if you don't pay for it yourself.
Unfortunately people believe that we should sell our skills we have gained by being a primary producer (NZKFB, NZFSU, Fonterra...) ......cutting the branch we were standing on.

Chain of events really, on their own bad, but combined made us soft for the kill. While the farmers/growers in NZ will cop a fair amount of this in the future. They hold a fair proportion of the blame too. If they stuck to what they did best 20+ years ago.......they would be in a better position now. But they wanted more. With a big rise must come a big fall.

**bogan** · 24th May 2011, 10:00

Originally Posted by avgas

Tis the unfortunate affairs of things.
Unfortunately farmers were taught how to farm better, and make more money......but no one taught them how to run a business in the black.
Unfortunately when the world fell to its knees with no money, the only ones with money not only were good at solid sound investment, they were actively looking to boost their own countries by buying others key resources.
Unfortunately people had a greed for above average returns - and put their faith and money on those who promised this. Rather than those I mentioned above who invested in very slow but stable investments.
Unfortunately people believed (and still do) that buying land is a safe bet.......but the fact of the matter is if you don't have the $$$ you shouldn't buy anything......as nothing is safe if you don't pay for it yourself.
Unfortunately people believe that we should sell our skills we have gained by being a primary producer (NZKFB, NZFSU, Fonterra...) ......cutting the branch we were standing on.

Chain of events really, on their own bad, but combined made us soft for the kill. While the farmers/growers in NZ will cop a fair amount of this in the future. They hold a fair proportion of the blame too. If they stuck to what they did best 20+ years ago.......they would be in a better position now. But they wanted more. With a big rise must come a big fall.

Well we had a good run, and I for one will welcome our new Chinese overlords

One point I'd like to make, is that there are other sorts of farmers here than dairy, who haven't been having a good time of it lately (though I think it's picked up the last year or two), and who don't pollute waterways etc, and who provide not just some silly breakfast ingredient, but meat, wool, meat, etc, and meat.

**Banditbandit** · 24th May 2011, 13:23

Originally Posted by Winston001

I really have to wonder about Labour. Traditionally this is the party of thinkers, intellectuals, ideas people, and the best they can come up with is attacking the one productive sector NZ's wealth has come from for 150 years?

Oh puleesse...

Come on. Politics is the art of getting elected .. and just how many farmers do you think vote Labour? Farmers are a "safe" target for Labour .. And how many city votes wil they get by attacking farmers (Yeah - clearly not yours ...)

**MikeL** · 24th May 2011, 15:03

Originally Posted by bogan

Well we had a good run, and I for one will welcome our new Chinese overlords

Good to see a down to earth, practical and realistic assessment of the situation. Too many people indulge in wishful thinking, hoping that NZ can somehow recover its past prosperity, when global capitalism, the commodity markets and free trade agreements will inevitably ensure that this country ends up as one huge farm owned by Chinese and supplying large quantities of low-cost food to the insatiable Asian market.

Learn the following Mandarin phrase:
Ni hao, xian sheng! Good morning, sir!
(accompanied by obligatory doffing of cap and slight bow)

**Sable** · 24th May 2011, 16:39

This is what farmers do all day and you have to think about taxing them harder?

**Winston001** · 24th May 2011, 21:01

Originally Posted by Banditbandit

Come on. Politics is the art of getting elected .. and just how many farmers do you think vote Labour? Farmers are a "safe" target for Labour .. And how many city votes wil they get by attacking farmers (Yeah - clearly not yours ...)

Yeah I know you are right. I suppose it irritates me when I avoid criticising beneficiaries and public servants and expect a similar level of respect for the primary industries of this nation. The much vaunted service industry only exists because we sell boring but solid commodities overseas. And "services" are what our clever financiers made their millions from then walked away from mum and dad's retirement investments.

Pretty damned hollow if you've ever worked with the soil. There is an honesty and primacy in your soul when you spend your days on the land.