Yeah right... just like they consulted on the road rego's and all our protest rides, meetings, letters, hikois etc made a huge difference didn't it. Here ya go Mr citizen, bend over again!Originally Posted by Ktmboy
Hardcore Biker
Yeah right... just like they consulted on the road rego's and all our protest rides, meetings, letters, hikois etc made a huge difference didn't it. Here ya go Mr citizen, bend over again!
KDX 1, Fantail 0.
I don't like the idea that a group that I'm not a member of gets to vote on what they think is best for me while I don't even know its happening and therefore get no say.
MNZ are meant to be representing all of us in the eyes of the govt? Like most people here I didn't even know it was going on. Good work MNZ.
Can we separate ourselves from MNZ? Or at least get some KB representation.
Hardcore Biker
maybe im missing something but whats wrong with a licence or rego system for all riders? at the moment we are paying for our acc levys through our car regos but we really should be paying as motorbike riders as we would certainally expect to be looked after when we get injured.
i think they should be making everyone have some form of rego or licence. Particuarlly in the case of people like road cyclists. you hear them complaining about how unfair and dangerous cars are and that they are entitled to use the road too (which they are) but the number of them that i see running red lights because they dont want to slow down or affect their training, is just crazy - if they want to use the road they should be accountable to the same set of rules.
i think the same goes for off road activities - 4x4 and mx etc. - hunters need licences and permits to do what they do, why shouldnt we?
and also, as the rules bout the environment and noise get stricter (like they are already getting in aus and the US), those of us who ride responsibility and respect the land we ride on will want to protect our rights from the small minority that have the potential to spoil it for all of us
Hardcore Biker
No offroad injury will be covered by the motor vehicle account unless it is miss reported or an error on ACC's part. Road riders don't subsidize offroad riders out of their registration costs. However any user of petrol that is not on a public road 'subsidizes' the motor vehicle account users.
Cover for onroad injury comes from the motor vehicle account which is collected from petrol and registration costs. The registration is based on vehicle type paying a portion of the total costs based on statistical representation (motorcycle, diesel vehicle etc). Because I drive a diesel ute I pay more than a car because diesel vehicles proportionally have more injuries in comparison to petrol users.
Cover for offroad injuries, or anything you do outside of work comes from the earners account which is levied from everybody in the paid workforce. This is not a proportional levy. There is no way to levy this based on the amount of situational risk like you can do with registration costs. Everybody can only pay so much in the dollar and shares the risk.
You can't really compare on road bikers paying more ACC levies into the ACC motor vehicle account to offroad bikers paying more into the Earners account. Both are motorized but other than that it is apples and oranges.
The instructions are simple...
Keep your hat on. I am well aware of the ins-and-outs of ACC and the various levies/accounts.
I didn't say that offroad injuries should be covered by the motor account...just that often they are. Because the claim form asks if a vehicle was involved.
Since I really only ride my bike recreationally, I shouldn't have to pay road user rego...my earners account should cover me. Right?
As for diesel ... you pay a higher rego because you don't pay on fuel.
Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?
Hardcore Biker
The claim form does not just ask if a vehicle was involved. It says "did the accident involve a moving vehicle on a public road/driveway or beach?". I'm sure this is answered in error sometimes but "many (most?)" cases? unlikely.
why would you expect to not have to pay the road user ACC levy on your road bike because you are a 'recreational' user? You have not 'paid' your levy already in the earners levy as it does not cover any motor vehicle usage on a public road, recreational or not. I didn't agree with the figures that the government trotted out to justify the increase in ACC levy for road bikers as they were obviously creative statistics but in principle a levy based on vehicle class/risk is sound IMO.
The diesel question, good point I miss understood that one...I just saw the higher ACC costs and thought in error that ACC levies where collected in RUC (which I just read that ACC is now proposing to do!).
Hardcore Biker
Letz have a look at how MNZ cud inforce there ideas , registering every offroad bike/quad or rider? How cud it be done & let alone the enforcement costs this wud incur yearly.
It wud be similar to Fed farmers trying to police every farm bike/quad/tractor, or Bikenz every bicycle & rider. Yeah Right.
Can't see it happening soon the logistics would be a nightmare eg Find every bike sold in NZ or every rider. MNZ cud only police there events & if any of them came a knocking on my door/ride they wud be told were to GO.
Forum whore
So considering the ACC portion of all fuel used by non registered vehicles e.g. bikes, boats,quads etc.
Does that cover the costs of the injuries? or is it too hard to work out how much fuel is going into these vehicles to get an accurate figure?
I mentioned vegetables once, but I think I got away with it...........
mad thou rider
sounds like they want it all their way.
As a road rider, I feel a tad pissed that my levies probably cover the acccident and injury costs of non paying off roaders.
In the past I rode dirt too, but now that im actually paying.
Id feel better about it, if they brought this system in INSTEAD of increased acc levies, but that was never going to happen was it?
As for the question of people on road legal bikes that have already paid levies etc turning up to events, surely an existing road licence would be considered a fair substitute... right...?...
Highway Biker
So ACC are looking to target us through MNZ. Where does the New Zealand Dirt Bike Federation stand in their eyes?
Quite a few events including GNCCs, Tarawera 100 and SummerCross are non MNZ events .
It was because of MNZ's costs and red tape that the NZDB Fed started in the first place.
If MNZ aren't prepared to let us in on the proposal then they should expect some more clubs jumping ship.
Hardcore Biker
Yep to hard to work out were the fuel wud go 2, it wud mean the petrol stations accounting for the intended use off every litre sold eg for a boat, lawn mower, chainsaw, bike/quad, off road buggy/car/truck etc.....
The list cud be endless.
Most off my riding mates put down a handy man injury wen filling out an ACC form for a bike injury, that way your always covered.
In the riders seat
Has anyone bothered to ask MNZ about it?
"If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough power."
Hardcore Biker
As a life member of NZDBF we've had this fight with MNZ before over their perceived views on this subject. They do not HAVE the right or Power to tell/inforce an individual what the can or can't do with regards to motorcycling.
They are just an elected body representing their members. Full Stop.
Will be talking to John Cobb tomorrow & gauging his comments.
On a foot note IF enough members don't renew with MNZ then itz BYE BYE MNZ.
NZDBF has the view itz member clubs know watz best for them, we collect no fee's & don't dictate to the clubs.
I await your feed back.
Hardcore Biker
i think there seems to be a lack of clarification on the points being made here...
from what i can ascertain though people seem to be unhappy with being told what to do - by the likes of MNZ or whoever - when they themselves are not necessarily affiliated with such groups.
i would like to redirect readers of this forum to actually consider what the issue is here.
What is the purpose of any licence/rego system?
in my opinion it is to provide some regulation of the activities that licenced/registered users undertake and/or to provide some way of accounting for things such as acc levies.
personally i think we as dirt bike riders DO pose a significant liability to public health services (we participate in a high risk sport - we WILL all be hurt at some stage) so i think it is only fair to contribute towards the cost of that.
also, like i mentioned it WILL become more difficult to find a place to ride off road due to increasing environmental and noise regualtions. this will mean that organised events (such as epic events or any other trail ride or mx track) will be increasingly more valuable to us as riders. If being licenced or registered enables such facilities to continue to be viable then im all for it. i suspect without licencing or registration, the cost of insurances and compliance for organised events will be prohibitive for organisers and they will eventually dissapear.
so really people need to consider what they want - do you want to be able to ride your bike where an when you want? if so you might need to think about how that will be achieved in the future?
Forum whore
Yes. Your point?
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