I agree that freedom should accompany responsibility. I don't, however, think that should fall on the state to control except where individuals are in a position that they unable to look after themselves.Originally Posted by Edbear
Weekend cruiser
I agree that freedom should accompany responsibility. I don't, however, think that should fall on the state to control except where individuals are in a position that they unable to look after themselves.
Anarchic Wild Child
Mate - every time a rider dies in a road accident ACC pay out to the family ... something over $5,000. That's money coming out of OUR levies ... every death on the roads directly affects ME
(So wear your fucking helmets and DON'T ARGUE ...)
"So if you meet me, have some sympathy, have some courtesy, have some taste ..."
Hardcore Biker
That's because I gave everyone a farken excellent brief at Sanson and told them not to fark up for everyone!
Let's face it, danger is nature's way of eliminating stupid people.
Him mit der R1200 Bayerische Motoren Werke Gelende Strasse
Weekend cruiser
Yeah, people wear helmets to please ACC. Get real.
I wear a helmet and would regardless of whether it's compulsory or not.
Anarchic Wild Child
NO!!! Wear you fucking helemts to please ME .. because then MY levy might go down ... (and yours)
(fuckwits on NZ roads are still dying because they are not wearing helemts ... )
"So if you meet me, have some sympathy, have some courtesy, have some taste ..."
Weekend cruiser
That is so not the issue here.
In the riders seat
Really? how many people died on NZ roads as a direct result of not wearing helmets in the last 12 months?
"If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough power."
Bored Room
I thought people die on NZ roads because they are in a metal box, or on a motor with wheels that relys on humans to operate.
Take away motor vehicles and out roads will be much safer....
DeMyer's Laws - an argument that consists primarily of rambling quotes isn't worth bothering with.
In the riders seat
I can't remember when helmets weren't compulsory but I can remember when it was possible to get a exemption from wearing them on medical grounds
Those old Triumph twins must have vibrated like a bastard because most of there riders seemed to suffer from headaches caused by it and be able to get an exemption
"If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough power."
Forum whore
You do know the best way to lower the ACC levy don't you? DON'T RIDE!
I don't hear you advocating that. If you're willing to put your own life at risk and ride one of these "death traps" (as a lot of people call them) then why are you so troubled because someone may chooses to do it helmetless ?
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin (1706-90)
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending to much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)
"Motorcycling is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, EXTREMELY unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence and stupidity!" - Anonymous
"Live to Ride, Ride to Live"
Anarchic Wild Child
It is so much the point. You seem to be advocating freedom of choice - and then saying that responsible riders will wear helemts. And that people should be allowed to act as they want so long as they don't affect other people. I used to agree with you. I changed my mind.
It's true that responsible riders will wear helmets, but there are people out there who will ride without helmets if they have the choice. I expect a lot of my old friends would. Hell, if I stayed riding with the 1%ers I almost certainly would not wear one, apart from for comfort reasons on cold wet days or long distance. (I'd probably be riding a Harley and never have dumped Hondas at speed.)
And then some of them would die because they had accidents when they were not wearing helmets. Each bike accident costs this country a MINIMUM of $10,000, (amulbance costs, coroner's costs, police costs, ACC costs) with the average cost being around $18,000 per accident. And costs for one accident can exceed $1million - depedng on injuries and ongoing medical bills.
So if we save three bike accidents that's saving a figure of around $54,000. That's the cost of an extra teacher somewhere in the country, an extra police officer - One more person in work and not on the dole. It is also the cost of several necessary operations which we can't afford to have done right now. The cost of medication to keep someone alive.
So every accident affects ALL of us ... and this is where your position falls over. Giving people freedom of choice will affect us all and cost the country what we can't afford.
No idea. There are the occassional idiots who get killed on bikes because they are not wearing helmets - it happens. That's why I am opposed to removing the compulsory helmet laws.
Because their death will affect us all. Fuck - I've ridden helmetless. I owned bikes before I owned a helmet ... and I certainly objected to being forced to wear one on the grounds of "personal freedom". But wearing a helmet has saved my life at least twice. Practical experience tells me they work. And they save us money that would come from our ACC levy and taxes.
Fuck - I'm sick of this arguement. Helmets work and save us money - Freedom of Choice is a non-arguement.
"So if you meet me, have some sympathy, have some courtesy, have some taste ..."
GOOD ROADS, NUTHIN 2 RIDE
Pity the msg faded with the event but the ACC levy stayed and the ammo ACC used as reasons why ACC is higher came flooding back, unfortunately.
ACC for bikes has become a lot like ncea is for kids at school.
farken complicated,
expensive to admin,
and the kids are being graded ALL the time not just the test at the end of year in fifth form (old school cert)....or bikers equivalent, bikoi.
Controversial enough that some prefer to use an alternative.
Would be good if credits could be given, then its fairer and freedom is as deep as your pockets should there be consequences.
"Your talent determines what you can do. Your motivation determines how much you are willing to do. Your attitude determines how well you do it."
-Lou Holtz
Forum whore
If the question is :
"What is the safest way to ride a motorcycle", then the answer is likely to be "with a helmet on".
And as long as that remains the question, we will remain able to ride, albiet wearing a helmet.
But IMHO we must defend the right of people to choose risk, for no reason other than pleasure.
If we accept that only the safest option is acceptable we take the risk that the safety nazis will ask a different question.
They may ask "whats the safest way of getting from point A to Point B"
And then, we will all get a bus pass, as motorcycling will be indefensible.
David must play fair with the other kids, even the idiots.
GOOD ROADS, NUTHIN 2 RIDE
I believe growing the numbers of capable riders will ensure a strong bike presence on nz roads unfortunately turning the tide needs more than just fuel price hikes to nudge those who start and end a sentence with "I would love to ride, always wanted to...BUT you know, temp citizen, organ donation, I think bikes are to powerful for me...on it goes"
From that you can either say they don't have what it takes anyway or motorbicycling has some problems.
What those problems could be is an endless debate in itself
"Your talent determines what you can do. Your motivation determines how much you are willing to do. Your attitude determines how well you do it."
-Lou Holtz
Weekend cruiser
I don't accept that we cannot afford that as a society.
For one, giving people the choice will not result in some kind of dramatic increase in accidents. Wearing a helmet while riding is only less dangerous in the sense that it offers protection from the elements.
Yes, the tiny minority of motorcyclists that are in accidents have an increased risk of being seriously injured or killed and yes that may increase costs.
Taking away the liberty of choice here is a bandaid solution. The real reason costs are rising is due to greater number of road users, in my opinion. That's the issue to be dealt with, not the choice when it comes to personal safety.
Helmets do not prevent accidents. Helmets deal with the consequences of accidents. A better solution is to limit or stop them happening in the first place.
No, they get killed because they were in an accident in the first place.
I don't believe wearing a helmet has anything to do with riding safely.
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