Benefits

[Laava]

I have friends with benefits

[neels]

It is a never ending argument as there are so many variables.

I've been briefly on the dole and applied for jobs but got turned down because I was overqualified, they didn't want someone that would up and leave when something better turned up, so I stayed on the dole and the jobs stayed vacant.

We have a job going where I work, on pretty good money and not a lot of skills required, a total of 4 applicants.

A mate of mine is trying to help out a young fella with a job, and his biggest problem is getting him to turn up, and trying to pry him away from his phone to actually work instead of constantly texting his mates.

There are no easy answers and sadly no magic bullet.

[avgas]

Sadly they do. I'm guessing a highly successful type such as yourself earns $250,000 (if it's more, my apologies for underestimating your status) which means the government will steal around $73,000 from you in tax. Now the $12,000 long term unemployed cost around $97,000,000 in tax. The total tax take is $50bn and personal tax and GST make up 62% of that, so if you do the numbers it works out that over the next year those bludging pricks will cost you $87.84! WELL YOU MIGHT BE ANGRY, that is 0.04% of your income! However for the schmucks on the average wage of $54k pa, those wasters will only pay the long term dole bludgers $11.00 this year, it sucks to be you huh?

Nah. but I am working on it. My salary is enough for my family to plan for a future. Save ok money etc. I am around the middle wage amount. My goal is $200K in another 10 years. So while that removes 99% of your argument, as I am not loaded.......here is why I think beneficiaries need a wakeup call.

Wasn't that long ago where I was living on $8,000 p/a - took me about 10-12 years to get out of that. So I know what its like down there.

I have never been on any benefit, for the simple reason that I was smart with my money and any money (money left from dying family etc) I got went into savings. This burnt me when I lost my job or studied as I could not apply for a benefit - so I would clock up loans, and live off baked beans. My life savings, my house deposit became my reason of why I couldn't get a benefit. Double edge sword though, as it also kept me alive........but it took me so long to save it that I was loathed to spend it. I still am.

$8000 was less than what unemployment beneficiaries got at the time. My mates thought I was nuts.

But no, cry me a river about how I should support the system that did not support me. How I should be the crutch trying to lift those who do not WANT to do things the hard way like I did.
Tell me how they benefit society with their PURE LAZINESS, and how TIME ARE HARD.....

Fact of the matter is they don't know shit. They have never had to live on sub $10,000 for the year. Many don't know what it is like to sleep on a floor, or eat baked beans every night for a month. Is it wrong for me to think they should learn how good they have it before they ask for more?

Go look at the immigrants in NZ that don't get benefit, that work shit jobs, live in garages, and never ask for anything. Those people had it harder than ME. beneficiaries in NZ don't know SHIT.

[jasonu]

Simply as a matter of interest, in the United States, state income taxes include unemployment insurance. If you lose your job you are entitled to a certain number of weeks of the dole depending upon how long you worked, being a percentage of your original wage.

Correct but add you must have been employed for atleast one year to qualify for the dole.
It used to be you would get the dole for 6 months with the chance to extend another 6 months on a case by case basis. Now you can easily get the dole for 2 years, I know someone (lazy prick brother in law) that has been on it for 3 years.

[oneofsix]

will avgas now be voting labour?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...pprenticeships

make the bludgers work

[scumdog]

I have friends with benefits

And I've got a tassled leather jacket - could I say I have fringe benefits?

[avgas]

will avgas now be voting labour?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...pprenticeships

make the bludgers work

Perhaps when a politician delivers on a promise I will consider voting again.
Until then why the fuck would I was my time on them? They are as bad as the bludgers. Only difference is they wear suits.

[shrub]

Excuse a little editing....

Wasn't that long ago where I was living on $8,000 p/a - took me about 10-12 years to get out of that. So I know what its like down there. ....$8000 was less than what unemployment beneficiaries got at the time. My mates thought I was nuts.

Interesting. The unemployment benefit for a male over 25 years is currently $201.00. Assuming you are talking 10 - 12 years ago the dole has not exactly kept pace with inflation.

I have never been on any benefit, for the simple reason that I was smart with my money and any money (money left from dying family etc) I got went into savings. This burnt me when I lost my job or studied as I could not apply for a benefit - so I would clock up loans, and live off baked beans. My life savings, my house deposit became my reason of why I couldn't get a benefit. Double edge sword though, as it also kept me alive........but it took me so long to save it that I was loathed to spend it. I still am.

In other words you didn't need to go on a benefit because you had an inheritence and you were able to borrow money. You had also earned enough money to be able to save, and I commend you for your financial self discipline - a quality that is all too rare today.

But no, cry me a river about how I should support the system that did not support me. How I should be the crutch trying to lift those who do not WANT to do things the hard way like I did.

You made a choice, and it was a choice that was based on you having goals, a cash asset and the ability to earn $8,000 pa while you were studying. What would you have done if you didn't have that cash asset, the ability to study and the means to earn $8k pa? There are many people who lack your resources, most significantly your self discipline and ability to set goals. Now another question: where did you get that from? Did you learn that from your family, friends or a mentor? Did you do something that taught you that, like a stretch in the armed services? Where would you be if you didn't have that advantage?

Tell me how they benefit society with their PURE LAZINESS, and how TIME ARE HARD.....

Times are hard(ish). They have been harder, and will be harder in the future, but there aren't a lot of jobs, especially for unskilled people. Do they benefit society? No, they don't - at least not when they are stuck on a benefit, but if they were able to use their time productively - whether in work or as a volunteer, then they would benefit society, and benefit themselves.

Fact of the matter is they don't know shit. They have never had to live on sub $10,000 for the year. Many don't know what it is like to sleep on a floor, or eat baked beans every night for a month. Is it wrong for me to think they should learn how good they have it before they ask for more?

I'm not sure the debate is about beneficiaries asking for more. I more think it's about the failure of the current system, and believe me, some of them know all about living it hard. A very, very small number don't, but they are the minority.

[SPman]

means 1 person in 370 is a long term dole bludger. Is that a big problem? I don't think so.

Unfortunately, from strident media blather, it would seem that at least 360 of the others, do. Vehemently - and would want to remove them from society - which leaves me asking questions about current societal mores, peoples feeling's of powerlessness and /or arrogant superiority.

Which is why I can't stand most people and prefer to live in the bush!

Have been on the Dole, eaten baked beans and slept on floors - got fill-in jobs (which would lead nowhere but was an eye opener...scrub cutting and fencing out by Raglan in mid summer isn't a barrel of laughs, but at least I got fit) - it's not a life style myself and 90% of others similarly placed, liked, but at least it kept the family fed and a roof over our heads (just), whilst we could sort things out. Still, the pastime of kicking people when they are down is alive, well and thriving among large sectors of our society - the fact that 10% may deserve it, doesn't seem to get in the way of kicking the other 90% as well and treating them like bludgers! Fuck 'em!

That's what a society is in place for - helping people through the bad times so they can re-contribute when they are better placed,
Volunteer work on the dole? - me and others I've known in similar situations have done this, but the way most people talk, they seem to want it as a revenge for not having paid employment - which again leads me to believe people are pissed of with their lot so they like to strike out at those they perceive as "lesser" than them....
I dunno - back to the bush, I reckon!

[Ocean1]

You made a choice

He did. As does everyone else.

And that's the only critical factor amongst those who strive to be self suficient.

[Smifffy]

Unfortunately, from strident media blather, it would seem that at least 360 of the others, do. Vehemently - and would want to remove them from society - which leaves me asking questions about current societal mores, peoples feeling's of powerlessness and /or arrogant superiority.

Which is why I can't stand most people and prefer to live in the bush!

Have been on the Dole, eaten baked beans and slept on floors - got fill-in jobs (which would lead nowhere but was an eye opener...scrub cutting and fencing out by Raglan in mid summer isn't a barrel of laughs, but at least I got fit) - it's not a life style myself and 90% of others similarly placed, liked, but at least it kept the family fed and a roof over our heads (just), whilst we could sort things out. Still, the pastime of kicking people when they are down is alive, well and thriving among large sectors of our society - the fact that 10% may deserve it, doesn't seem to get in the way of kicking the other 90% as well and treating them like bludgers! Fuck 'em!

That's what a society is in place for - helping people through the bad times so they can re-contribute when they are better placed,
Volunteer work on the dole? - me and others I've known in similar situations have done this, but the way most people talk, they seem to want it as a revenge for not having paid employment - which again leads me to believe people are pissed of with their lot so they like to strike out at those they perceive as "lesser" than them....
I dunno - back to the bush, I reckon!

I don't mind putting a bit towards providing the basic necessities of life for those that can't manage, or even for my ownself should something happen to my employment & prospects.

I do however object to funding the lifestyles of those wearing red or blue hankies around their wrists and on their heads with fists or rolie dogs tattoed on their faces or on the back of their jackets.

There are also those gaming nerds who seem to think that as long as they have enough to keep them in pizza and dew then sleeping all day and gaming all night is worthy of our tax dollars. Yeah right.

As for the DPB any girl can make a mistake so I don't mind contributing to make sure that the kid can at least get a good start, but there is definitely a word for somebody that makes the same mistake three times. I say make the DPB a decent payment, but cap it, no bonus for a 2nd or 3rd kid, and no extra once the first kid leaves home.

[scumdog]

He did. As does everyone else.

And that's the only critical factor amongst those who strive to be self suficient.

Damn right - some make a decision to get ahead/try to get ahead.

Other make a decision to become a leeching loser for the rest of their sorry life.

[shrub]

He did. As does everyone else.

And that's the only critical factor amongst those who strive to be self suficient.

And that my friend is the key - making choices.

Every day every one of us has the chance to make choices, and those choices are decided by what we want from life. I want to spend the rest of my working life doing some specific things and earning a specific amount, to be able to work and travel, carry no debt, have the freedom to work the hours I want and more. I know the things I need to do that will mean I can have that, so every day I am faced with the choice of whether to do them or not, and because I have a long term vision and concrete goals combined with a belief in myself, every morning I choose to do what I need to do. My choices today will be decided by what I expect of myself and what I expect of myself will be decided by what I believe I can do.

I'm no different to anyone - OK, maybe a little bigger, fatter and balder than most, but that's about it. The difference between me sitting working away at a thesis that is already attracting attention from universities overseas and the guy across town who will spend today smoking weed and doing nothing is our expectations of ourselves. He has no expectations of himself beyond the banal because he has no belief in what he can do and have.

My belief in myself and my expectations of my life are the product of my upbringing. I was brought up to believe in my intelligence and believe in my ability to work, and I was brought up to expect to be successful. I was surrounded by books as a child, and my parents were moderate drinkers with no drug use beyond nicotine. Compare that to the tens of thousands of children growing up in poverty and in households dependent on a benefit - are they surrounded by books? Are they expected to do well at school?

The challenge to us as a society is to find a way to get those kids now and change their beliefs and expectations about themselves. Many of their parents are beyond redemption, but the kids aren't. Imagine if we could just get 20% of the kids on a one way ticket to benefit addiction to believe that they can own their own home, hold down a well paid job and live without drugs. Worth working towards? Or should we just go back to the default of ignoring them until they hit the papers?

[shrub]

Other make a decision to become a leeching loser for the rest of their sorry life.

yeah, but without them and their radar guns and speed cameras the roads would be much more dangerous.

[Ocean1]

My belief in myself and my expectations of my life are the product of my upbringing.

P'raps. Back to the old nature vs nurture innit.

I know too many bad kids from good parents and vice versa to believe there's much nurture in that recipe.