Don Brash: "We should decriminalise marijuana"

[mashman]

Yes. If people moderated their use of both alcohol and pot responsibly, I don't feel that there would be much of an issue here. Most people don't, and that is the problem. Sharing a joint on a Saturday night with a few mates is nothing like smoking a whole joint yourself and worse, doing so every day.

So education is the problem, not use or the availability of the substances?

Heh, as for sharing with friends, doesn't that depend on how much you take and how well you know the bud that you're smoking? as you said earlier, semantics... but I'm always after someantics

[Brett]

So education is the problem, not use or the availability of the substances?

Heh, as for sharing with friends, doesn't that depend on how much you take and how well you know the bud that you're smoking? as you said earlier, semantics... but I'm always after someantics

Smart arse

You're taking the arguement into another dimension. Education is the problem, yes. But if we can't get it right with booze, what are the chances with another substance thrown into the mix? We don't need more social carnage to try and mitigate while people 'get educated'. All will happen is that potheads with addiction problems will join the line with the alcoholics, as I said before, thus putting more drain on our medical and legal resources while decreasing their productive input into society. Walking around with dreads, unshaven, barefoot and in a David Baine jersey saying "peace man" and handing out flowers does not consitute being productive. (Ok...so I am being facetious with that last bit...)

[superman]

Yes. If people moderated their use of both alcohol and pot responsibly, I don't feel that there would be much of an issue here. Most people don't, and that is the problem. Sharing a joint on a Saturday night with a few mates is nothing like smoking a whole joint yourself and worse, doing so every day.

Therefore decriminilize and then over educate on the negatives. Like we do with smoking now!

No matter how bad smoking is for you I'd never think that it should be a banned substance. People should just be as educated as they can on the matter, if they aren't easily educated then we have a bit of a win-win towards the gene pool.

[mashman]

Smart arse

You're taking the arguement into another dimension. Education is the problem, yes. But if we can't get it right with booze, what are the chances with another substance thrown into the mix? We don't need more social carnage to try and mitigate while people 'get educated'. All will happen is that potheads with addiction problems will join the line with the alcoholics, as I said before, thus putting more drain on our medical and legal resources while decreasing their productive input into society. Walking around with dreads, unshaven, barefoot and in a David Baine jersey saying "peace man" and handing out flowers does not consitute being productive. (Ok...so I am being facetious with that last bit...)

... meh, it's just a side of the "argument" eh.

Ugh... once again. Both substances are currently available and both substances are currently used and abused. So the argument that decriminalisation is like ringing the dinner bell is a nothing more than propoganda. As well as potheads all of a sudden becoming worse potheads .

You can educate someone til the cows come home, but at the end of the day, they will make their own decisions as to how far to puch it. Some like to experiment to find that limit. Fortunately my parents didn't shun me from the household, but allowed the use because they could keep an eye on us. I understand that attitude and will employ it in the future should the need arise.

Anyhoo... your idea of education and mine will be light years apart. I would expect the police as well as drug addicts would pay a visit to schools and explain every side of the argument that they can in a morning session, yes all morning. Pupils will be able to ask questions... the afternoon session (now don't freak out ), I would like to see parents accompany the police and drug addicts, whilst their children partake in some form of marijuana ingestion. The whole place may erupt with laughter, some may puke, some may panic and freak out vowing never to do it again... get the pupils to discuss their observations, feelings etc... end the day with everyone a little wiser and hopefully a little more educated.

@ the way you view society. Why aren't there people out in the streets everyday, staggering around everywhere, puking all over the place, picking fights with passers by litering the streets with empty cans of the strongest lager they can stomach, handing out punches like they;re going out of fashion screaming what the fuk you lookin at man??? ... perhaps they do it in their cars instead . Is there rally that much of a difference between a smoke and a drink?

[Mad-V2]

Well I know people who do smoke every day because they choose not to take the legal drugs that are more harmful to you such as panadol. The only sign of Schizophrenia I've seen in those people is the fact that they may have had a shit day and are quite stressed, they have a "joint" and turn into people who are happy and no longer stressed. Is this what they refer to as Schizophrenia?
As for smoking it purely for the affect, there are alot of people who love the taste and smell of weed. The same could be said for booze, how many do you know will sit at home and have a glass of straight tequila because they simply love the taste?
How many tobacco smokers do you know that have smoked most of their life still smoke because they still love the taste of tobacco?
Cannabis is not addictive, it is habitual. Tobacco is addictive, legal, making the government a shitoad of money and killing all it's users the same as alcohol. So why are those things legal? because they make the country more money. What other uses apart from fuelling vehicles and removing paint does alcohol have? We already know hemp is used in alot of applications all over the world and cannabis has been proved to help in some forms of illness.
I had my tongue pierced when I was 18 (dumb shit) and no amount of pain relief would take the pain away. I had some evil cannabis and the pain disappeared as if my tongue had been pierced all my life.
Recently someone I know had their remaining 14 teeth pulled and cannabis works better for him as a pain relief than the meds he was given by the dentist, he feels no pain in his mouth now and can eat proper food.
It's not an evil drug, it's the dumb laws, brainwashed old school generation and drug dealers that make it evil.

[husaberg]

Ummmmm speeding is not a criminal offense. I have been convicted of speeding. I do not have a criminal record.



Ummmm, isn't that the point of this little debate?




This guy pretty much says it all....


Does the harm that marijuana does to society justify the the costs both financial & social, of maintianing the status quo? Especially in light of the known harm/costs of other drugs which are not illegal.

I think not.

[QUOTE=Clockwork;1130164663]Ummmmm speeding is not a criminal offense. I have been convicted of speeding. I do not have a criminal record.
Speeding is against the law so is smoking Dope.

See, we can both split infinities.
Ummmm, isn't that the point of this little debate?
Yes this is the point but this debate is pointless because If you want dope decriminalized vote for it. If you don't vote for a party that doesn't support decriminalizing it. There are obviously some firmly intrenched ideals at stake here.

If you guys who smoke dope or who support the decriminalizing it are such a majority as you claim to be it shouldn't be a problem to vote for a party that supports a change and win with a landslide. Or at the least get enough signatures to force a referendum on the matter.

[mashman]

Well I know people who do smoke every day because they choose not to take the legal drugs that are more harmful to you such as panadol. The only sign of Schizophrenia I've seen in those people is the fact that they may have had a shit day and are quite stressed, they have a "joint" and turn into people who are happy and no longer stressed. Is this what they refer to as Schizophrenia?

Unfortunately the Schiz is real... all too real. I had a friend, read had as passed away, who moved away from everyone and would go for anyone who came through his door, including his family. Now I'm not saying it was his marijuana use, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out... we used to smoke, A LOT! He was one of the most gentle souls I had ever met, anyone had ever met. Had everything going for him, played guitar, got the hot chicks etc... but in the end... meh, who knows what finally did him in, he really didn't make much sense towards the end. My final image of him was of him sitting by a radiator, knees folded to his chest and in some other world. It still brings tears to my eyes. But people become Schiz for entirely different reasons... fortunately, the numbers are low and no amount of legislation is going to stop people from taking stuff that they want to take.

Edit: for the record, he was 22.

[Mad-V2]

Whats the numbers? 1 in 4 have a mental illness? I know what your saying but the brain is very complicated and triggers to mental illness can simply come from the food we eat.

[Edbear]

Well I know people who do smoke every day because they choose not to take the legal drugs that are more harmful to you such as panadol. The only sign of Schizophrenia I've seen in those people is the fact that they may have had a shit day and are quite stressed, they have a "joint" and turn into people who are happy and no longer stressed. Is this what they refer to as Schizophrenia?
As for smoking it purely for the affect, there are alot of people who love the taste and smell of weed. The same could be said for booze, how many do you know will sit at home and have a glass of straight tequila because they simply love the taste?
How many tobacco smokers do you know that have smoked most of their life still smoke because they still love the taste of tobacco?
Cannabis is not addictive, it is habitual. Tobacco is addictive, legal, making the government a shitoad of money and killing all it's users the same as alcohol. So why are those things legal? because they make the country more money. What other uses apart from fuelling vehicles and removing paint does alcohol have? We already know hemp is used in alot of applications all over the world and cannabis has been proved to help in some forms of illness.
I had my tongue pierced when I was 18 (dumb shit) and no amount of pain relief would take the pain away. I had some evil cannabis and the pain disappeared as if my tongue had been pierced all my life.
Recently someone I know had their remaining 14 teeth pulled and cannabis works better for him as a pain relief than the meds he was given by the dentist, he feels no pain in his mouth now and can eat proper food.
It's not an evil drug, it's the dumb laws, brainwashed old school generation and drug dealers that make it evil.

If cannabis was as good as every user says it is it would have been seized upon by drug companies who would have developed very effective painkillers from it. All those who support it are smokers who want to keep on smoking it.

Any talk of medicinal benefits is simply an attempt to justify using it as a recreational drug. Dope has been probably more thoroughly investigated than any other drug and the only supporters, are as I said, the ones smoking it for pleasure.

[mashman]

Whats the numbers? 1 in 4 have a mental illness? I know what your saying but the brain is very complicated and triggers to mental illness can simply come from the food we eat.

I agree, it could have been anything... but that doesn't mean I'll rule out the drug usage.

[mashman]

If cannabis was as good as every user says it is it would have been seized upon by drug companies who would have developed very effective painkillers from it. All those who support it are smokers who want to keep on smoking it.

Any talk of medicinal benefits is simply an attempt to justify using it as a recreational drug. Dope has been probably more thoroughly investigated than any other drug and the only supporters, are as I said, the ones smoking it for pleasure.

, not everyone that supports it "smokes" it, that's just an out and out over exaggeration. The majority probably, but not everyone.

I know you research things Ed... Have you researched medical marijuana? Are the beneficial claims that are made, especially in the arena of Cancer fraudulent?

[blackdog]

Unfortunately the Schiz is real... all too real. I had a friend, read had as passed away, who moved away from everyone and would go for anyone who came through his door, including his family. Now I'm not saying it was his marijuana use, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out... we used to smoke, A LOT! He was one of the most gentle souls I had ever met, anyone had ever met. Had everything going for him, played guitar, got the hot chicks etc... but in the end... meh, who knows what finally did him in, he really didn't make much sense towards the end. My final image of him was of him sitting by a radiator, knees folded to his chest and in some other world. It still brings tears to my eyes. But people become Schiz for entirely different reasons... fortunately, the numbers are low and no amount of legislation is going to stop people from taking stuff that they want to take.

Edit: for the record, he was 22.

I have a friend in very similar circumstances. He might be 1 in 1000 but the weed definitely doesn't agree with him. One puff and he would end up in the psych ward for a month it affected him so badly. I remember a conversation I had with one of his doctors and him telling me that if it wasn't for pot 2/3 of the patients wouldn't be in there. What he also remarked on was the effects of alcohol and how it was far more insideous, damage from which cost the health system much more, and left some with far greater health issues.

He also acknowledged that for many the use of cannibis was in fact the much better choice of the two, and from a medicinal point of view can be used to treat more than one condition (including psychiatric) far better than any other available drug.

As for my mate, he sticks to booze and the odd E nowadays and is happy as a pig in the proverbial.

This does not make weed a bad thing that all should be forced to avoid however.

There are far more people who are allergic to penicillin, does that mean we should outlaw antibiotics?

[jazfender]

If cannabis was as good as every user says it is it would have been seized upon by drug companies who would have developed very effective painkillers from it. All those who support it are smokers who want to keep on smoking it.

As mentioned, there is medical marijuana.

But also, drug companies can't sell something that's illegal.

[Edbear]

, not everyone that supports it "smokes" it, that's just an out and out over exaggeration. The majority probably, but not everyone.

I know you research things Ed... Have you researched medical marijuana? Are the beneficial claims that are made, especially in the arena of Cancer fraudulent?

As mentioned, there is medical marijuana.

But also, drug companies can't sell something that's illegal.

Of course there is medical usage of it, and yes, I do a lot of study and research. I fully support all research into the medicinal properties of plants and wish there were more into many of the traditiopnal medicines by indigenous populations of many countries.

Drug companies don't need to sell anything illegal as if they extract the ingredients and isolate the beneficial properties, developing a medicinal drug it would be simply going through the normal testing and approval processess in place.

What the drug companies are looking for, is not only medical effectiveness but also cost effectiveness and whether there is a similar drug that does the same job already in wide use. They are continuing to explore the medical possibilities of Cannabis and other plants and are far more objective than recreational users ever could be.

My point here is that the ones who are most vocal and biased towards Cannabis are those who smoke it for recreation and want it legalised for that purpose. They are not interested in whether there is an effective alternative or in the medical properties as separated from the whole plant.

[mashman]

As for my mate, he sticks to booze and the odd E nowadays and is happy as a pig in the proverbial.

discoooooo biscuits... ahhh the days. Good on 'im for getting looked at, probably saved his life. There's something to be said for a little experimentation to find out what works for ya in your recreation time.