Rear brake use?

[Crasherfromwayback]

I'm gonna take a stab and assume you were meaning 500cc 2T dirt bikes, Crasherfromwayback

Correct!!!

[Berries]

See it's funny, I avoid the rear brakes if I'm on a slippery surface, since it locks so much quicker.

All my examples were low speed in a straight line. I can handle a locked rear wheel doing that, locking the front would have me off instantly.

[quickbuck]

All my examples were low speed in a straight line. I can handle a locked rear wheel doing that, locking the front would have me off instantly.

Um, locking the front wheel isn't an excuse to crash a motorcycle either.....

[Brett]

Um, locking the front wheel isn't an excuse to crash a motorcycle either.....

Indeed it shouldn't...however even somewhat leaned over and locking the front would be somewhat hard for the average rider to try and save.

[Berries]

Um, locking the front wheel isn't an excuse to crash a motorcycle either.....

I was talking about going down a steep, muddy and rutted driveway. With a locked rear I can still get down it. With a locked front I'd be knackered. Some days I can hardly get enough traction to get up it.

[GrayWolf]

I think the hot laps they did at the track would have been a better comparison had he been let loose to do a lap his way, then after some tutorial from her. And her doing a lap the way he drove.

But I digress. I'm confused as to how that has anything to do with what we're talking about. It's cars, not the same as a bike at all.

The police pursuit training is certainly relevant in hazard identification though, even though the cop we saw at first didn't seem to give them much heed.

If you look at his lap he WAS driving the Police way,,, and was only 4 seconds slower than a professional racing driver. The point about the Police 'system' isnt confusing,, the 'bible' quoted from, and in so many cases the methods taught (I.A.M.) for both cars and bikes are lifted from the Police Roadcraft Manuals for cars and Motorcycles....They have a system for both.
So if a comparison was made between a racing rider and a Police trained (UK) rider, the outcome would likely be very similar to the clip I attached. The most pertinant point was the way the driver being assessed at the start was travelling at speeds on a public highway of 160-200 kph in a 50kph limit, and avoided the muppet in the silver vehicle with absolutely no drama. The anticipation and planning to negotiate hazzards is probably the most critical skill the Police (UK) teach,,, These skills (threat vectoring, etc) are NOT a racing skill.... I dont think it was 'no heed' for the starting driver, it was anticipated (threat assessment, and already planned for) and avoided with little obvious drama. Look How amazed Vicki was with the instructor's feedback whilst he was giving it the herbs through bends...

[Drew]

The anticipation and planning to negotiate hazzards is probably the most critical skill the Police (UK) teach,,, These skills (threat vectoring, etc) are NOT a racing skill.... I dont think it was 'no heed' for the starting driver, it was anticipated (threat assessment, and already planned for) and avoided with little obvious drama.

Not a racing skill? It's different for sure, but there are other bikes on the track, and few of them run at the same pace. Even those that do are not taking the same lines. You come up on some of them bloody quick and need to identify the best way around, and action whilst at the same time keeping the bike as controlled and stable as possible.

Look How amazed Vicki was with the instructor's feedback whilst he was giving it the herbs through bends...

That mechanical approach although impressive at how detailed he could commentate, was four seconds a lap slower. That is an eternity on a race track. Lets also not forget that no one has ever heard of that chick, so I'm pretty sure she doesn't set the world on fire with her driving.

I'm not really trying to disagree with you, or your original posts. I wanted to know what book you were quoting, because to quote something and not give reference does nothing to make a point.

I know full well I am not perfect in my riding, and that I could possibly improve by reading these and other books, or doing a rider training course. I just like to point out that no one has the exact formula, that fits everyone.

[Fast Eddie]

Correct!!!

hmm, yamaha WR500 on tradies for 3,800.. is this cheap/the expected price range? Shame I just bought the aprilia rs250.. didn't even think about big bore 2 stroke dirt bikes for a toy

[Crasherfromwayback]

hmm, yamaha WR500 on tradies for 3,800.. is this cheap/the expected price range? Shame I just bought the aprilia rs250.. didn't even think about big bore 2 stroke dirt bikes for a toy

They're piles of poo. Get a liquid cooled CR500 or a KX500

[quickbuck]

I was talking about going down a steep, muddy and rutted driveway. With a locked rear I can still get down it. With a locked front I'd be knackered.

Okay, fair enough then.
This is understanding the situation, and not putting yourself in a compromised position.....

Some days I can hardly get enough traction to get up it.

This....., well, one wouldn't want to take that out of context

[quickbuck]

Indeed it shouldn't...however even somewhat leaned over and locking the front would be somewhat hard for the average rider to try and save.

Indeed... So, the average rider should never put themselves in that situation in the first place....

[george formby]

They're piles of poo. Get a liquid cooled CR500 or a KX500

No thanks. My 2fiddy scares the crap out of me. I'm praying too hard to do anything other than hang on..

[crash99]

Well, again another interesting thread on KB. I guess there are two types of riders - experienced ones and wannabes. Experienced ones ride on the road (and perhaps track), ride lots in many different conditions, and use what they have available to them to ride well and ride safe. This means a combination of front and rear to get the right result. Sometimes more front, sometimes more rear. Wannabes pretend they only ever ride so fast that they never need to use their rear brakes cos the rear wheel is always off the ground. Yeah right. Like you never ride in the wet? (real rider??) And you always brake so hard in the wet that your rear tyre is in the air?? Geez. Get real. What a wank.

[ducatilover]

Well, again another interesting thread on KB. I guess there are two types of riders - experienced ones and wannabes. Experienced ones ride on the road (and perhaps track), ride lots in many different conditions, and use what they have available to them to ride well and ride safe. This means a combination of front and rear to get the right result. Sometimes more front, sometimes more rear. Wannabes pretend they only ever ride so fast that they never need to use their rear brakes cos the rear wheel is always off the ground. Yeah right. Like you never ride in the wet? (real rider??) And you always brake so hard in the wet that your rear tyre is in the air?? Geez. Get real. What a wank.

Yaeh, Drew and Crasherfromwayback are total wannabe riders. They have nothing on me.

[sugilite:Me]

Wannabes pretend they only ever ride so fast that they never need to use their rear brakes cos the rear wheel is always off the ground. Yeah right. Like you never ride in the wet? (real rider??) And you always brake so hard in the wet that your rear tyre is in the air?? Geez. Get real. What a wank.

Interestingly I use the same braking markers in the wet as I do in the dry on the racetrack. Yes, it is slower than in the dry as you cannot get the same drive out of the corners, thus attaining a slower speed by the time the braking marker comes up, but I'm sure a fair few riders would be surprised at just how hard one can brake in the wet, painted lines, man hole covers and slick tar aside if course.
Any dick can squeeze the brake lever hard enough to get the back wheel of a modern sports bike in the air, the question is, how much safety margin do they have, and do they have the nonce and experience to have a plan B when it starts turning to custard?
This thread has been dragging on for an age, really if the original poster got into a severe braking situation, by the time he has processed all the advice given on here, he will have missed his braking point by several hours