Car crushing in the ODT today (13 Dec)

**Flip** · 3rd January 2012, 08:19

Originally Posted by Katman

Can you not see how residents who happen to live along the route of the Akaroa GP or the Coro GP (or any other GP route the country has) might have exactly the same view of motorcyclists?

Motorcyclists don't go out riding in convoy at 0200 looking for a place to do burnouts, skids, drink piss and smash up shit.

Even in the 70's and 80's the white power bike gangs never were stupid enough to piss the public off the way the boy racers do.

**Katman** · 3rd January 2012, 08:22

Originally Posted by Flip

Motorcyclists don't go out riding in convoy at 0200 looking for a place to do burnouts, skids, drink piss and smash up shit.

No, they choose to go out in convoy during the daytime to live out their Rossi fantasies - and in doing so, endanger everyone else that has to share that road.

**SMOKEU** · 3rd January 2012, 08:31

Originally Posted by JMemonic

Only to the illiterate that are 'boy racers'.

A skid is simply a skid, a burnout is what you are referring to, dam it the term comes from drag racing but you cant grasp the concept the two are different beasts.

Oh here is a question for you, after these social gatherings held on the side of the road, which cause sleepless nights to the locals or property damage you claim not to appreciate but encourage the gatherings that cause the mayhem, are there often stolen cars found near by, that have been set alight.

These are all honest folks you talk about who's only offence is to do a burnout, yeah right.

Burnouts are not the problem here, it's the mass congregation of often drunk teenagers followed by the inevitable antisocial behaviour. It's not the act of spinning tyres which steal cars or threaten and intimidate residents, it's the people who act in a disorderly manner.

If you remove the vehicle aspect, they will be acting just as badly. I've seen out of control parties where vehicles are not involved, and I have seen large groups of youths smashing bottles and terrorising residents when the party spills out on to the street.

Blaming burnouts for everything is just a scapegoat for a larger societal problem. Penalising burnouts so severely does absolutely nothing to curb antisocial and violent behaviour. It will simply move the problem elsewhere. Fuckwits will be fuckwits regardless of whether cars are involved or not. Drunk idiots will be drunk idiots too. Now that the skids don't really happen around Christchurch any more, those same people who used to go to the skids and terrorise residents are now going to pubs and starting fights outside the pubs, or they're going to residential parties and acting just as disorderly.

Few of the problems are actually caused by the drivers of the cars, as the drivers are usually sober. It's the drunk passengers who are the ones that smash bottles and assault people. True, if the driver didn't drive out to the skids then the drunk passengers wouldn't be there, but if the driver drove the drunk passengers to any other public place, they would act in exactly the same way. It's not really fair to be comparing drunk idiots who are passengers in a car to a "boy racer".

Originally Posted by jasonu

Plus Grandad in our day the autos available ie Escorts, Cortinas anb Hillman Hunters were not capable of doing the full on smokey drifts that the T cars the kids have these days and therefore were much less likely to get way out of shape. Even the old straight six Valiants and v8 Falcons etc were useless compaired to say turbo Skylines and Legacys.

Modern cars have much better brakes and suspension, too.

Originally Posted by Flip

Motorcyclists don't go out riding in convoy at 0200 looking for a place to do burnouts, skids, drink piss and smash up shit.

Even in the 70's and 80's the white power bike gangs never were stupid enough to piss the public off the way the boy racers do.

Read reply #1 in this post.

**Scuba_Steve** · 3rd January 2012, 08:40

Originally Posted by tigertim20

If a couple guys got into their car, went out of town, and did some burnouts by themselves, WITHOUT spraying the road with shit like diesel or oil (and leaving it there) and made sure they had some legal tyres to put on the car after the burnouts, and didnt wake people up, then nobody would give a fuck.

reckon you should rethink that one. The PIGs will go out of their way to make monies off "boy-racers".
I used to watch a somewhat organized drag event, went to a long straight stretch of road well out of town closest farm house was 15km away (est) nothing round for miles, road was blocked at both ends so no unaware people wandered in (plenty of parallel streets to take), there was medical on hand & fire precautions, either side of the road was massive ditches so if anyone went off no property (other then their own) was destroyed. Yet do you think the PIGs would just let it be??? nope
On a sat night if you were assaulted, they couldn't give a shit. Burgled, "it can wait till monday, we might consider doing something then". Property damaged "not interested". But your a "boy-racer" they're all on you like a pig in a shit house regardless of how far out of the way you go, because "theres monies to be made in them there cars".

**GrayWolf** · 3rd January 2012, 09:32

Originally Posted by SMOKEU

Burnouts are not the problem here, it's the mass congregation of often drunk teenagers followed by the inevitable antisocial behaviour. It's not the act of spinning tyres which steal cars or threaten and intimidate residents, it's the people who act in a disorderly manner.

If you remove the vehicle aspect, they will be acting just as badly. I've seen out of control parties where vehicles are not involved, and I have seen large groups of youths smashing bottles and terrorising residents when the party spills out on to the street.

Blaming burnouts for everything is just a scapegoat for a larger societal problem. Penalising burnouts so severely does absolutely nothing to curb antisocial and violent behaviour. It will simply move the problem elsewhere. Fuckwits will be fuckwits regardless of whether cars are involved or not. Drunk idiots will be drunk idiots too. Now that the skids don't really happen around Christchurch any more, those same people who used to go to the skids and terrorise residents are now going to pubs and starting fights outside the pubs, or they're going to residential parties and acting just as disorderly.

Few of the problems are actually caused by the drivers of the cars, as the drivers are usually sober. It's the drunk passengers who are the ones that smash bottles and assault people. True, if the driver didn't drive out to the skids then the drunk passengers wouldn't be there, but if the driver drove the drunk passengers to any other public place, they would act in exactly the same way. It's not really fair to be comparing drunk idiots who are passengers in a car to a "boy racer".

Modern cars have much better brakes and suspension, too.

Read reply #1 in this post.

Well Smoke, I am IMPRESSSED that is a worthwhile and well thought post.

You actualy make some valid and pertinant points.
You are correct in that the drunken behaviour will be the same, regardless of location. All you have to do is watch various Cop shows on sky. (Yes before anyone says it the scene's ARE selected, but they do show how bad behaviour is getting) What to me is being missed here is for everyone to take a step back, breathe, and think this out like 'joe public'. It has been mentioned the Rossi fantasy, and the boy racer behaviour. One or BIG differences, during the day in traffic even with his loud exhaust the average boy racer is 'in the traffic' it is the ROSSI wishers they all (motorists) see carving through traffic, overtaking on double yellow lines etc as well as loud pipes. The average boy racer 'performs' during the night, yes parents know their offspring is 'hooning' and I guess a good 70% had fathers who were centre plot hoons. We are seen with a bad image since the rebel and 1% clubs, even the Rossi dreamers are labelled with that brush in a way. Drunkeness has till very recently been socially acceptable, just like smoking in public bars, resteraunts was. So in a way the 'boy racer' is just a development of the centre plot hoon perential history.
If convoys of boy racers every weekend tore up the Taka's, drove at 150+ in the 'rapa on the back roads? I guess they would start to be seen in the same light as us after a while especialy if they developed a few 'gang' elements that the media could focus on. Cars are seen as socialy acceptable, motorcycles have lost that acceptability, which is odd as at one time my grandparents had combo's as a cheap form of accepted transport.

Originally Posted by Scuba_Steve

reckon you should rethink that one. The PIGs will go out of their way to make monies off "boy-racers".
I used to watch a somewhat organized drag event, went to a long straight stretch of road well out of town closest farm house was 15km away (est) nothing round for miles, road was blocked at both ends so no unaware people wandered in (plenty of parallel streets to take), there was medical on hand & fire precautions, either side of the road was massive ditches so if anyone went off no property (other then their own) was destroyed. Yet do you think the PIGs would just let it be??? nope
On a sat night if you were assaulted, they couldn't give a shit. Burgled, "it can wait till monday, we might consider doing something then". Property damaged "not interested". But your a "boy-racer" they're all on you like a pig in a shit house regardless of how far out of the way you go, because "theres monies to be made in them there cars".

You could well be right Steve, but these PIG's are also the same ones targetting drunk drivers at the roadside, also a good revenue source? So why not leave them alone as well? Given enough time like bike riders the boy racer WILL become socialy unacceptable, but they could speed it up by having a few 'patch clubs' have brawls in public places with weapons etc. What you are not 'seeing' is, Oganised or not you ILLEGALY blocked a road and I quote " (plenty of parallel streets to take)" there's half the reason the 'PIG's' as you call them do persue the illegal drags, apart from the deisel, oil etc that gets put on the roads and left behind. Also you have to look at human expectations, you and many parents see this as 'acceptable'? Untill little johnny loses control of his wrx, skyline, evo at close to 200 k's and loses his life in one of those ditches. You will see how quickly little johnny's parents would turn on those 'PIG's' and complain bitterly why they were'nt out there stopping it, to protect little johnny from himself.
I came from the UK in the early 90's and what you quote as not bothering with burglary etc? The Police there took a report and if the crime was'nt 'solved' within a 12 hr? time period, it basicaly wasnt going to get 'solved' they do not have the 'manpower' to spend hours investigating it. Usualy burglaries are solved by a 'lucky break' which leads to pinching little johnny and co after several blags. Drunk driving, drunken misbehaviour, boy racers are 'solvable' issues, again protecting little johnny from himself.
Motorcycles are not seen as a form of transport, rather as a plaything. The average bike purchased is generaly a sprot bike they are not commuter bikes or serious 2 up transport. There are riders who commute I admit. I dont own a car, and I can tell by the weather how many bikes will be on the road commuting. Have you seen the kilometer's travelled on average by a bike? I can easily find bikes 10yrs+ with less than 20,000 km's. I believe the average bike distance travelled in a year is under 5,000km (if wrong I accept correction) So if you purchase a bike to ride 15,000 km's a year? your bike will be worthless on the s/h market in a few short years. Sprot bikes were/are produced through public demand. Our biggest issue in public perception IS to return bikes to the idea of 'real transport' by the masses. So maybe our challenge is for motorcyclists to all start returning bikes to being seen as a transport medium, rather than a toy.

**Brian407** · 3rd January 2012, 09:45

Originally Posted by SMOKEU

, I slipped once when I was walking and broke some ribs. Walking is dangerous.

Only when performed by idiots. Guess what? You're an idiot!

**Scuba_Steve** · 3rd January 2012, 10:09

Originally Posted by GrayWolf

You could well be right Steve, but these PIG's are also the same ones targetting drunk drivers at the roadside, also a good revenue source? So why not leave them alone as well? Given enough time like bike riders the boy racer WILL become socialy unacceptable, but they could speed it up by having a few 'patch clubs' have brawls in public places with weapons etc. What you are not 'seeing' is, Oganised or not you ILLEGALY blocked a road and I quote " (plenty of parallel streets to take)" there's half the reason the 'PIG's' as you call them do persue the illegal drags, apart from the deisel, oil etc that gets put on the roads and left behind. Also you have to look at human expectations, you and many parents see this as 'acceptable'? Untill little johnny loses control of his wrx, skyline, evo at close to 200 k's and loses his life in one of those ditches. You will see how quickly little johnny's parents would turn on those 'PIG's' and complain bitterly why they were'nt out there stopping it, to protect little johnny from himself.
I came from the UK in the early 90's and what you quote as not bothering with burglary etc? The Police there took a report and if the crime was'nt 'solved' within a 12 hr? time period, it basicaly wasnt going to get 'solved' they do not have the 'manpower' to spend hours investigating it. Usualy burglaries are solved by a 'lucky break' which leads to pinching little johnny and co after several blags. Drunk driving, drunken misbehaviour, boy racers are 'solvable' issues, again protecting little johnny from himself.

no drunk drivers are targeted (at this stage) by cops & not exactly a bad thing but some of the places they choose to do it is fucking retarded.
No oil or diesel was spilt, the road that was blocked 98% of people traveling through the region would have never knew it existed.
As for acceptable almost all the "oldies" I talk to (family or not) have stories about doing things (now illegal) of similar manner, modifying cars, beach races, drags etc maybee we need to stop protecting idiots from themselves? My mum is intelligent enough not to bitch n moan at the cops or Govt if I did something retarded & killed myself, so maybee Johnny's parents need to stop relying on TPTB to control their lives & take some responsibility for themselves.
As for the burglary thing, I mean it would take them a week before they even got started, not this 12hrs you speak of we're talking 5 days.

**GrayWolf** · 3rd January 2012, 12:30

Originally Posted by Scuba_Steve

no drunk drivers are targeted (at this stage) by cops & not exactly a bad thing but some of the places they choose to do it is fucking retarded.
No oil or diesel was spilt, the road that was blocked 98% of people traveling through the region would have never knew it existed.
As for acceptable almost all the "oldies" I talk to (family or not) have stories about doing things (now illegal) of similar manner, modifying cars, beach races, drags etc maybee we need to stop protecting idiots from themselves? My mum is intelligent enough not to bitch n moan at the cops or Govt if I did something retarded & killed myself, so maybee Johnny's parents need to stop relying on TPTB to control their lives & take some responsibility for themselves.
As for the burglary thing, I mean it would take them a week before they even got started, not this 12hrs you speak of we're talking 5 days.

Accepted Steve your group may not have spread oil/deisel on roads. if you scan back this thread you'll see a couple of us mentioned the louts who did it EVERY weekend in Invergumboot, and it isnt only there oil spreading happens. So again I will accept that your group may have been more 'adult' about the whole thing.

The 12hrs I mentioned is the time 'allowed'? after it is reported. I had friends in the Met' and basicaly if they were already out of the immediate area? You really were'nt going to find them untill the 'lucky break' so to speak.

Agreed that it should not need TPTB to'nanny state' us, that is the whole arguement going on here in the thread.
It is either up yours pig's/govt, roll over and play dead (after a bit of whinging), or lets have a rally, that'll sort them out!
Untill we are all on the same page for a course of action? They have us as a 'victory by division'; period! We need the rebel rousing of the Stoney's and we need some 'old heads' who can meet policy makers on their own terms.
In my opinion, we gained nothing at the bikehoi. Why? I have worked in Union and non Union firms. In non Union? you negotiate your pay rate, but the bosses have the solidarity. In a Union firm? Both have 'clout'.. both enter the negotiations knowing what to reasonably expect, what they want, and 'LOST LEADERS' so to speak. < These are the 'we wants' they are prepared to negotiate away. I will bet a pound to a pinch of shit, that the govt knew exactly what they could reasonably expect, and the WE WANT of $700... So you think we as motorcyclists got a result by 'reducing' it to $500? Funny how they quickly came up with that figure after the rally. We need a concerted focus, rallies; and the people who CAN talk the grey man talk.

**scumdog** · 3rd January 2012, 17:44

Originally Posted by Scuba_Steve

reckon you should rethink that one. The PIGs will go out of their way to make monies off "boy-racers".
.

I'll bite:

The so-called PIGs make absolutely NO money from the tickets they issue, zilch, nadda, nowt, not a brass razzoo.

And half the losers that get tickets end up doing community service/P.D. etc 'cos they (allegedly) can't afford to pay for their tickets (Cry me a river...)

So YOU 'should rethink that one'!

**caseye** · 3rd January 2012, 19:39

An he should know, the little oinker! So There.

**Rehab** · 4th January 2012, 00:25

Originally Posted by SMOKEU

SMOKEU: I'm still yet to see a convincing argument that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that holding 1 foot on the brake pedal and the other foot on the accelerator pedal simultaneously is suddenly going to kill someone. Is the car suddenly meant to blow up and kill an innocent bystander, or what's supposed to happen?

USMOKE: Yes, burnouts do have the potential to cause harm.

SMOKEME: I have been to a sanctioned burnout competition at Ruapuna, a V8 "Mag and Turbo" VE Commodore did a big skid and caught fire!

Is this the result of someone slowly seeing the light, or paying less attention to what they post than they might want to I wonder?