Safer Journeys for Motorcycling

**NONONO** · 3rd January 2012, 11:18

Over a period of 2 weeks. Still, eh? Clean em up, backyard.

**Katman** · 3rd January 2012, 11:22

Originally Posted by NONONO

Over a period of 2 weeks. Still, eh? Clean em up, backyard.

I'm sure if the government was able to figure out a way of targetting the entire population without fear of losing their position of power they would do so in a heartbeat.

Motorcyclists don't have the comfort of numbers.

**NONONO** · 3rd January 2012, 11:24

It has, it's the sell off of ACC. A practice I believe you approve of.

**Katman** · 3rd January 2012, 11:34

Originally Posted by NONONO

It has, it's the sell off of ACC. A practice I believe you approve of.

Good for them.

Perhaps it will bring about the return of a society that takes responsibility for it's actions.

**MSTRS:Me** · 3rd January 2012, 12:02

Originally Posted by Katman

And if that figure is correct and the spreadsheet that Simon provided at post #261 is also correct then it would suggest that motorcyclists have managed to cost the country almost 44.2 million dollars over the last five years.

Do you recall the figure ACC used to assist in swaying opinion against us? 2008/09 year it was $60M.
Now who do we believe?
And remember, the majority of that figure was for historic injury treatment and income compensation. Which was also paid for in previous years' levies. AND nobody ever confirmed whether income compensation came out of the earnings fund or the motor fund. The suggestion was that if injury was caused in a vehicle crash, then that fund paid everything. Which doesn't make sense, when considering we all pay according to our income into the earning fund. And if there are people on high incomes being compensated out of the motor fund, then how fair is that on us on low(er) incomes having to pay increased levies in our regos.

**Scuba_Steve** · 3rd January 2012, 12:10

Originally Posted by Katman

Good for them.

Perhaps it will bring about the return of a society that takes responsibility for it's actions.

oh please tell me your trollin'.

**GrayWolf** · 3rd January 2012, 12:40

Originally Posted by Ocean1

There's actually a valid point to her argument, and I don't think it's hers alone amongst the politbureau. The problem they’ve got is caused by several conflicting features of human behaviour. Firstly, our throttle hand is driven by an in-built risk assessment protocol that we find very difficult to over-ride. Secondly, the various attempts at restricting risky behaviour are currently set well below those average human behavioural limits.

But here’s the thing: It is their problem. Not mine. And it only becomes your problem if you’re arrogant enough to believe your opinion is better than those whose very lives depend on their own.

We like to think our own risk-taking strategies are consciously well thought out and that they should represent some sort of limit which everyone else should observe. But really, apart from the artificially generated angst about the road toll in general and our part in it in particular, what’s the problem? Considering the accident statistics objectively is not the road a remarkably safe place to be, considering the sheer mass of machinery hurtling about it?

I think we do pretty well, that the road toll as a measure of our safety on the roads and an indication of the speed we should be travelling at long ago reached and blasted past the point of diminishing returns. I predict this won’t prevent them reducing speeds further, limiting overtaking more widely and introducing more control mechanisms and traffic calming devices over the next few years. The miniscule difference it’ll make will be buried amongst many far more influential factors, and if those factors are positive they’ll be claimed as a success for the above, if negative, they’ll be used to justify yet more draconian measures.

Just call me Nostradamus.

Agreed Nostradamus

my point is, that as Police riders are trained from the same book 'advanced rider training' is taken from? She does in effect shoot herself in the left foot.

**actungbaby** · 3rd January 2012, 12:40

Am going get back into riding and ride by example am not out to score polictical points or fight with people.

If you want discuss serious issues in person whould be better not hiding behind keyboard in the real world.

Akot these groups start out with good intentions then boged down in power struggles and infighting and egos

I surpose you have to say we share common love of motorcycling cant see alot love here though.

The wires on highways i notice around wellington area alonf that lovley costal road , gee to think one worst,

Accident spots i dont know why i love concetration of riding arround there its great , never really thought what happen if

Bike got forced into the wire with me on it cant say makes me feel safe or unsafe its up to me how i surive on the Road

Not up to somone in the behive its personall commiment by me to my wife and family to protect myself

What i like to see is law Inforcement doing someting about the noise limits on cars its like flmaing race track at nights

Sometimes its Noise pollution govt going on about familys actually dont really do they its all about making money

And selling of assest with this lot and the lot before , and i know some people on here are very intelligent people

why resort to slating into each other cant you make your points view in common sence way with out personall attacks

And foul language just show you to up as angry and un postive looks nasty

Originally Posted by Berries

That's it in a nutshell. Specific issues vary between people. Some hate cheesecutters, others don't have a problem with wire rope barriers. Some think the ACC component should be the same for all road users, others think that there is an increased risk in riding on two wheels so why shouldn't there be a different levy? Some are ATGATT preachers, some even wear hi-viz. Others just want to ride.

As one of those "pricks who just wants to ride" as caseye so eloquently put it, I find it hard to think of an issue that would cause to me join in in a group protest.* I will ride around/deal with/get over roading issues like shit surfaces and wire rope, I will ignore ATGATT and hi-viz if ever legislated. I just want to ride, and at the moment I can't see anything on the horizon that will stop me doing so.

*Actually, if there is a ride to get shot of MotoNZ and get back my $30pa I might be tempted. Fucking pointless exercise that was/is.

**yungatart** · 3rd January 2012, 12:49

Originally Posted by actungbaby

Am going get back into riding and ride by example am not out to score polictical points or fight with people.

If you want discuss serious issues in person whould be better not hiding behind keyboard in the real world.

Akot these groups start out with good intentions then boged down in power struggles and infighting and egos

I surpose you have to say we share common love of motorcycling cant see alot love here though.

The wires on highways i notice around wellington area alonf that lovley costal road , gee to think one worst,

Accident spots i dont know why i love concetration of riding arround there its great , never really thought what happen if

Bike got forced into the wire with me on it cant say makes me feel safe or unsafe its up to me how i surive on the Road

Not up to somone in the behive its personall commiment by me to my wife and family to protect myself

What i like to see is law Inforcement doing someting about the noise limits on cars its like flmaing race track at nights

Sometimes its Noise pollution govt going on about familys actually dont really do they its all about making money

And selling of assest with this lot and the lot before , and i know some people on here are very intelligent people

why resort to slating into each other cant you make your points view in common sence way with out personall attacks

And foul language just show you to up as angry and un postive looks nasty

Yer what?
Again...in English this time, otherwise it is just so much gobbledygook!

**MSTRS:Me** · 3rd January 2012, 12:59

Originally Posted by yungatart

Yer what?
Again...in English this time, otherwise it is just so much gobbledygook!

Settle - he's getting better. I could even understand most of it this time, and he has a point.
But we're still gonna argue about stuff, because everyone has a differing opinion on what is a problem, or on how to deal with it, and despite what *some* on here seem to think, there is any amount of passion when it comes to riding and the shit that threatens the longterm prospects.

**riffer** · 3rd January 2012, 13:08

Originally Posted by James Deuce

Oh FFS. I was back at work, part time in 3 months, full time in 4. There are people who fall down their steps at home who spend longer off work. A lot more people, a lot longer off work. If you want to "fix" ACC focus on DIYers and gardeners. They cost a shitload more than motorcyclists. You'd get the same spent on you Simon. You ignorant dickhead.

Calm down. Yes you were back at work in 3 months. Yes I'd get the same amount spent on me. I used you as I believe its a fairly good exemplar of ACC's involvement in motorcycle accidents.

There's no need to bring up the straw man argument of DIYers and gardeners and there's definitely no need to descend to ad hominem.

**DMNTD:Me** · 3rd January 2012, 13:11

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Settle - ....

LOL! How did that comment work for you mister? Duck 'n weave!

**MSTRS:Me** · 3rd January 2012, 14:11

Originally Posted by DMNTD

LOL! How did that comment work for you mister? Duck 'n weave!

The bleeding has almost stopped...

**riffer** · 3rd January 2012, 14:32

One big point I have to make.

Give up on your straw man arguments. There is NO POINT in comparing motorcycle injuries and deaths to injuries and deaths FROM ANY OTHER SOURCE because they're simply not relevant to the discussion here.

In the last five years of stats (1996 - 2010) there were 2105 motorcycle accidents. Not a lot, but still significant.

And here's what the Police have recorded as the causative human factors for the accidents where one could establish clear factors:

Alcohol 326
Overtaking 154
Speed 470
Fatigue 24

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why they concentrate on alcohol and speeding does it?

Still, there's 1376 accidents they have no information recorded as to causative human factors.

682 of those are single vehicle accidents. That's at least 30% of ALL accidents involving motorcycles in the last five years that have no recorded causative human factors.

I would like to find out what really happened in these accidents.