Waitangi Day

[PrincessBandit]

from headline articles on stuff this morning: From a comparatively peaceful Waitangi Day celebration so far...quoting Joris de Bres

[But while some Maori activists were protesting at Waitangi yesterday, Race Relations Commissioner Joris de Bres criticised those Pakeha who still resisted moves to give "special treatment" to disadvantaged Maori, thousands of whom suffered inequality. "I still have a sense that there is a lack of generosity in some Pakeha attitudes to Maori and there is a lack of will to see measures taken that will help to remove that disadvantage and there is a lack of understanding of this notion that it is actually fair to deal specifically with people who are suffering unfairness." Mr de Bres said he received a "continuing thread of correspondence" against "anything that could be deemed to be a special measure or something that applies particularly to Maori or Pacific people".

"Every time the issue comes up ... then you start to get a level of resistance and resentment and objection.

"I understand where people are coming from when they object to it. All you can really do is continue to have the conversation because, unless you do something about it, the outcomes for everybody are going to be worse in the end." ]

I personally have no issue with those who are disadvantaged getting "special treatment", but it should be across the board. If you have Pakeha, Asian etc who are particularly disadvantaged for some reason should they miss out because they're not Maori?
What we need is people as a society not ripping off systems put in place to assist those who need extra help, regardless of their ethnicity. You will find rip-off artists amongst all cultures who ruin it for the rest who genuinely require more.

Is New Zealand really a country where the general population still have a stingy mean attitude against people in need?

[Katman]

Is New Zealand really a country where the general population still have a stingy mean attitude against people in need?

I don't believe we have a stingy mean attitude towards people in need.

I believe we have a stingy mean attitude towards people who want to sit on their arses and get hand-outs for nothing.

The area between the two is what we seem to have trouble defining.

[James Deuce]

Is New Zealand really a country where the general population still have a stingy mean attitude against people in need?

Yes. There are very special exceptions. But generally, NZers are fairly privileged and have no imagination when it comes to helping people truly in need. From a personal perspective, family, especially family, tell you that it's your own fault and to harden up and want to discuss where you've failed, and then act all surprised when you've nowhere to live. Friends generally disappear when things get too hard, and Government has thresholds for providing help set so artificially low (in that you have to be earning less than the minimum wage to qualify) that you have to lose your job and live under a bridge for a year before they'll help.

Ethnicity is a two-edged sword. If you're pakeha, you'll get help when you've descended into bankruptcy, substance abuse, and marketing your kids as sex-toys, after you've served your jail-term. A tinge of Maori DNA and there's about 40 agencies, with money, able to help instantly. To avoid this, you'll have to use and abuse friends and trade trust and respect for security for your family. Asking for help exposes you to scrutiny from agencies that you don't want in your life and accepting help from friends means swallowing all the shit you were fed about self-reliance. It then takes you months to build up the self-respect to start giving back, but in the meantime you get written off as a selfish arsehole because you haven't returned the favour.

As I said, there are very special exceptions, but they are generally very special people and do the same for others in the crap without question or much thought.

[mashman]

Why would anyone work for less money that they will earn on the dole? There's a massive amount of the population that work for buttons, working more than 1 job to make ends meet and they are berated for not trying harder and suckling at the govt teat. Pretty pathetic really. My 2 cents, it's a lack of empathy for those who are down at the bottom of the pile and the decisions that they choose to make. Work for next to fuck all or sit on my couch and do what I can with the assistance I get. There also seems to be a lack of want to adhere to the legal obligation that each and every non-Maori are entitled to by law. You have a population that are doing the hard yards so that our money is worth what it is worth in that full-employment = hyperinflation and I've seen no evidence to persuade me otherwise. Those at the bottom are doing you a favour by keeping your money at the value it currently is and I highly doubt that they're all Maori or Pacifika. Pay your rent to the Maori as per your contractual obligation and STFU.

In other news, John Key was seen to

[James Deuce]

Why would anyone work for less money that they will earn on the dole? There's a massive amount of the population that work for buttons, working more than 1 job to make ends meet and they are berated for not trying harder and suckling at the govt teat. Pretty pathetic really. My 2 cents, it's a lack of empathy for those who are down at the bottom of the pile and the decisions that they choose to make. Work for next to fuck all or sit on my couch and do what I can with the assistance I get. There also seems to be a lack of want to adhere to the legal obligation that each and every non-Maori are entitled to by law. You have a population that are doing the hard yards so that our money is worth what it is worth in that full-employment = hyperinflation and I've seen no evidence to persuade me otherwise. Those at the bottom are doing you a favour by keeping your money at the value it currently is and I highly doubt that they're all Maori or Pacifika. Pay your rent to the Maori as per your contractual obligation and STFU.

In other news, John Key was seen to

That's a fairly one dimensional approach to what constitutes "people in need" and I'd also like to say that quite often choice has nothing to do with people being in need.

Nothing personal.

[Katman]

Pay your rent to the Maori as per your contractual obligation and STFU.

Spoken like a true cock.

[TrentNz]

Maoris... what will they complain about next?
never ends

[EJK]

History is written by the victors

[James Deuce]

Maoris... what will they complain about next?
never ends

He's Dutch I thought.

[davebullet]

I work with a Maori lady.

She told me about her nephew that never really paid much interest to his culture, heritage and didn't do that well in school.

He heard that you can get a Maori scholarship to go to tertiary education, which he went for and his aunt endorsed.

He failed all his papers and is re-applying for the scholarship again. His aunt won't endorse him again. Money doesn't have to be paid back either.

I'm all for preserving culture, but not handing out money to someone who is disadvantaged because they are Maori, have blue eyes, nasal hair or anything else that by itself is not a disadvantage.

[TrentNz]

was talking about the waitangi day in general, and the protests that were happening that caused john key to gap.

[mashman]

That's a fairly one dimensional approach to what constitutes "people in need" and I'd also like to say that quite often choice has nothing to do with people being in need.

Nothing personal.

Very true. I fully realise that there are circumstances out with anyone's control that send them to the bottom of the financial pile and my "reaction" is the direct opposite (give or take) to the other 1 dimensional cocks of this world who say things like

I believe we have a stingy mean attitude towards people who want to sit on their arses and get hand-outs for nothing.

Fire away JD, some things need to be said.

[mashman]

I'm all for preserving culture, but not handing out money to someone who is disadvantaged because they are Maori, have blue eyes, nasal hair or anything else that by itself is not a disadvantage.

I think some of us would prefer to live in a country of Maori culture than a "western" culture. Where that is the case these problems will arise and indigenous rights, as "protected" by UN declaration, need to be protected where "western" culture is the alternative imho. If it manifests itself as Maori being given a leg up then there's something wrong with the attitudes of those who run the country.

[Katman]

I think some of us would prefer to live in a country of Maori culture than a "western" culture.

It always amuses me when Poms jump on the 'Honour the Treaty' bandwagon.

Almost as ironic as Smokeu's 'Maori are racist' posts.

[mashman]

It always amuses me when Poms jump on the 'Honour the Treaty' bandwagon.

Almost as ironic as Smokeu's 'Maori are racist' posts.

As opposed to honour the capitalist social structure bandwagon that's worked so well for everyone concerned. I wish I had put some thought into what I was saying instead of spouting the usual shite you hear from the anti-treaty folk. Your propaganda is weak and only works on the weak minded... as you prove.