Waitangi Day

[superman]

You're 17 right?

The education system we have has been around for a number of years now.

To suggest that Maori are disadvantaged by it, or don't have the same opportunities from it, is utter bullshit.

You're an old man right? (No I'm not 17) and what does age have to do with this? Was there some magical period you were around that Maoris were getting the same scores in education as whites? Or are you trying to shove what I say into a corner merely cause I am younger than you and therefore what I say should be disregarded due to youth induced liberality?

[superman]

Maori people don't push themself to the same extent in terms of education because they are generally less intelligent than white people.

Oh... soo uhh... ummm...

Hmm....

[Katman]

Or are you trying to shove what I say into a corner merely cause I am younger than you and therefore what I say should be disregarded due to youth induced liberality?

No, it's because you're just spouting some shit you've read in a book somewhere.

[Kickaha]

You've been on a diplomacy course lately, right?

At the Gordon Ramsay school of diplomacy I heard

[superman]

No, it's because you're just spouting some shit you've read in a book somewhere.

If I spouted stuff from a book it would have been clearly referenced. I am simply stating that there must be underlying effects in society that create over-privilege for whites. Whether that means the entire structure of capitalism is more beneficial to whites, whether it's cultural bias, whether it's societal bias, bias to the ethnic majority etc. It is complete fact in NZ that whites have better chances of gaining good qualifications, having a good job, living longer.

If you think that isn't caused by current NZ society having been created by European history and white colonisation then you are simply another white guy who wants to pretend racial inequality is self chosen.

[Katman]

If I spouted stuff from a book it would have been clearly referenced. I am simply stating that there must be underlying effects in society that create over-privilege for whites. Whether that means the entire structure of capitalism is more beneficial to whites, whether it's cultural bias, whether it's societal bias, bias to the ethnic majority etc. It is complete fact in NZ that whites have better chances of gaining good qualifications, having a good job, living longer.

If you think that isn't caused by current NZ society having been created by European history and white colonisation then you are simply another white guy who wants to pretend racial inequality is self chosen.

Maori have had 170 odd years to adapt to New Zealand society.

(Note I said New Zealand society - not white man society).

[superman]

Maori have had 170 odd years to adapt to New Zealand society.

(Note I said New Zealand society - not white man society).

The Aborigines which have had 230 years to adapt haven't done so well have they?
The Native Americans which have had 400 years to adapt haven't done so well have they?

Current NZ society is derived almost completely from European history with little to no Maori input. The legal system is completely European, the education system is completely European. It isn't surprising Maori haven't 'adapted' so well to NZ society.

[Katman]

It is complete fact in NZ that whites have better chances of gaining good qualifications, having a good job, living longer.

No, everyone has the same 'chance'.

Some might just have a greater desire.

[Katman]

The Aborigines which have had 230 years to adapt haven't done so well have they?
The Native Americans which have had 400 years to adapt haven't done so well have they?

Don't go trying to place Maori in the same oppressed category as the Australian aborigines or Native American Indians.

[superman]

No, everyone has the same 'chance'.

Some might just have a greater desire.

If whites have greater desire to do something deemed positive within the culture they created it isn't very surprising is it...

[Katman]

If whites have greater desire to do something deemed positive within the culture they created it isn't very surprising is it...

Once again, not having the desire to achieve does not make one under-privledged.

[steve_t]

No, everyone has the same 'chance'.

Some might just have a greater desire.

Giving everyone the same chance/opportunity is 'equality'

The Treaty Of Waitangi promises 'equity' - equal outcomes catered to the needs of the people. This can be evidenced in things like 'Alternative Entry' to studying Medicine, though I'm not sure if I want to have a surgeon operating on me who got there because of his/her race and not because of his/her competency

[superman]

Once again, not having the desire does not make one under-privledged.

How does a society which makes one group desire education/health/prosperity over another group not create a privileged/under-privileged situation? If you are born into one group, and by simply being born into that group the society you live in will influence your desire for beneficial behaviours within it's construction higher I'd definitely call it privilege.

[Katman]

How does a society which makes one group desire education/health/prosperity over another group not create a privileged/under-privileged situation? If you are born into one group, and by simply being born into that group the society you live in will influence your desire for beneficial behaviours within it's construction higher I'd definitely call it privilege.

Yeah, well now you just sound young and stupid so I'm outa here.

[Pussy]

There is some soft-cock bullshit being spouted in this thread.

Winners make improvements, Losers make excuses.