Speed tolerances

[haydes55]

Clive Matthew-Wilson, editor of the Dog and Lemon Guide, agreed, saying the majority of fatal crashes occur at speeds below the legal limit.

He accused the police of "massaging the statistics to suit their argument"

Public media reporting the truth!
80% of crashes occur below the speed limit. After crashes at 30+km/h over the limit have been taken into consideration, that leaves far less than 20% of all crashes occurring at a speed which a driver would be fined. Fine slow drivers they make people pass on short straights, blind corners and other dangerous areas causing fatalities. They said they would fine slow drivers over the holidays yet I was in a cue of 5-10 cars in a 100km/h area going 80km/h and a cop drove straight past us. I had to go 130km/h to get past 4 cars in front of me on a short straight. (Fuck going slow through for another 15 minutes).

Forgot the link article here.

[FJRider]

So 20% of the road toll might not have died ... had they not been exceeding the limit ... ???

And of the 80% ... could they have been travelling too fast for the road/weather/traffic conditions ... at the time ... ???

[SMOKEU]

The government has probably realised that NZ drivers in general are incompetent fools who lack the skills to safely operate a motor vehicle, but it's easier to dish out infringement notices and demerits rather than to educate drivers properly which doesn't generate any revenue compared with the first option.

[FJRider]

The government has probably realised that NZ drivers in general are incompetent fools who lack the skills to safely operate a motor vehicle, but it's easier to dish out infringement notices and demerits rather than to educate drivers properly which doesn't generate any revenue compared with the first option.

I can see driver courses (approved and licenced by LTSA) becoming the norm required in attaining any licence. (or renewal ... ???)

[haydes55]

So 20% of the road toll might not have died ... had they not been exceeding the limit ... ???

And of the 80% ... could they have been travelling too fast for the road/weather/traffic conditions ... at the time ... ???

I can drive a van 100km/h on a road with corners that suggest 75 in the pouring rain. Your excuse is invalid. If a van can take a 75km/h corner at 100km/h in the pouring rain I think it's complete idiocy that speed can be considered a major factor of road crashes. When a car goes around a 55km/h corner at 100km/h then its starting to get to the edge of grip and speed becomes a factor. On a straight road, in your own lane how can speed cause a crash? Keeping safe distances and slowing for intersection.

[RDJ]

At the risk of beating the dead horse some more... I wonder when we will ever get the authorities to answer the question many have asked them: why when the toll goes down is it your most excellent policies but when it rises it is always our malignant fault?

Quote: "...deaths continued to decrease during the pre speed camera years until cameras were introduced in the early to mid 1990's. In fact, since the mid 1990's the number of deaths has stayed about the same which is proof, over a 10 year period, that speed cameras do not save lives. If planting 5000 cameras on the streets and issuing over 7 million fines since 1992 really worked then we would have seen the number of road deaths continue to fall, but they've just stayed the same. The question is, why haven't fatalities continued to decrease since cameras were introduced?"

Breakdown of causes of accidents from 13 (UK) police forces:

Cause of Accident % of Accidents
Inattention: 25.8%
Failure to judge other person's path or speed: 22.6%
Looked but did not see: 19.7%
Behaviour: careless/thoughtless/reckless: 18.4%
Failed to look: 16.3%
Lack of judgment of own path: 13.7%
Excessive speed: 12.5%

But... as the saying goes, "figures lie, and liars figure..."

[haydes55]

Cause of Accident % of Accidents
Inattention: 25.8%
Failure to judge other person's path or speed: 22.6%
Looked but did not see: 19.7%
Behaviour: careless/thoughtless/reckless: 18.4%
Failed to look: 16.3%
Lack of judgment of own path: 13.7%
Excessive speed: 12.5%

So to save lives
1-Better training
2-Better training
3-Better training
4-Better training
5-Better training
6-ticket those going at dangerous speeds. If a person is considered dangerous when driving at 110km/h then maybe they just really suck at driving thus Better training.

[FJRider]

...I can drive a van ....

My point was ... because it happened under ANY set speed limit ... does not mean speed is NOT a factor, in the conditions of that accident ... at that time.

Handling characteristic's of your car/vehicle is, can NOT be compared with any other vehicle ... at another time and place.

[tigertim20]

I can drive a van 100km/h on a road with corners that suggest 75 in the pouring rain. Your excuse is invalid. If a van can take a 75km/h corner at 100km/h in the pouring rain I think it's complete idiocy that speed can be considered a major factor of road crashes. When a car goes around a 55km/h corner at 100km/h then its starting to get to the edge of grip and speed becomes a factor. On a straight road, in your own lane how can speed cause a crash? Keeping safe distances and slowing for intersection.

cars on the raod vary greatly in age, suspension, handling etc. The limits they set are designed to be limits for good conditions, in ANY car, i.e. a WRX, a Bentley, a Cadillac, and a model T should all be able to get around that corner safely at the posted speed, so no, his argument is not invalid, you are just too quick to act like you know everything.
Yes, certain vehicles can go around corners faster.
There is a posted 25km corner not far from here that I can get around at 90km/hr on my R1, does that mean we should increase the limit on that corner? - of course not, the tour busses, older cars with shitty suspension, inexperienced drivers etc etc wouldnt get around it at that speed, and raising the limit high enough to suggest to them the posted speed is safe would be lunacy.

[FJRider]

... At the risk of beating the dead horse some more...

I can't see in the figure's quoted ... what percentage of increase in the number of registered vehicles ... over that ten year period.

You would think ... if the Police "speed policy" has had no effect with the extra number of vehicle ... the road toll would be higher ...

[haydes55]

My point was ... because it happened under ANY set speed limit ... does not mean speed is NOT a factor, in the conditions of that accident ... at that time.

Handling characteristic's of your car/vehicle is, can NOT be compared with any other vehicle ... at another time and place.

What I'm trying to say is I can safely go 25km/h over the suggested speed of a corner in a van in the rain. Surely a car can handle better than a top heavy van. Therefore removal of speed limits would leave the abilities of each person in their own vehicles the choice to decide what speed they are comfortable and travelling. I'll admit I'm a terrible driver because of speed limits. I don't speed (every now and then exceed by accident of course), I go down straights at 100km/h and I go around corners in the rain at 100km/h. Would it not be safer to go 120 down a straight flat road and drop to 90 for a corner? Read this article on Cracked number 2 on the list, several European cities have removed speed limits road signs traffic lights and everything basically. Drivers focus more on their surroundings instead of staring at signs and their speedo. Crashes and deaths have dropped significantly.

[Kickaha]

Fine slow drivers they make people pass on short straights, blind corners and other dangerous areas causing fatalities.

Slow drivers dont make anyone do anything, they're not the one pushing the accelerator of the car doing the dumb passing moves

I had to go 130km/h to get past 4 cars in front of me on a short straight. (Fuck going slow through for another 15 minutes).

Well no you didn't have to, you chose to go 130kmh to pass them

You sound like an impatient cunt who shouldn't have a licence

[FJRider]

What I'm trying to say is I can safely go 25km/h over the suggested speed of a corner in a van in the rain. Surely a car can handle better than a top heavy van. Therefore removal of speed limits would leave the abilities of each person in their own vehicles the choice to decide what speed they are comfortable and travelling. I'll admit I'm a terrible driver because of speed limits. I don't speed (every now and then exceed by accident of course), I go down straights at 100km/h and I go around corners in the rain at 100km/h. Would it not be safer to go 120 down a straight flat road and drop to 90 for a corner? Read this article on Cracked number 2 on the list, several European cities have removed speed limits road signs traffic lights and everything basically. Drivers focus more on their surroundings instead of staring at signs and their speedo. Crashes and deaths have dropped significantly.

I might suggest ... not all vehicles handle as well as your van ... or as skilled a driver as you. OVER EVERY ROAD in NZ.

Stupid people dont know they're stupid ... and are quite comfortable being stupid. And in most cases ... dont care about any OTHER road user. Or any laws that are inconvenient ... at the time.

And are in no position to complain, if the actions of any other road users, might endanger them. That would be hypocritical ... wouldn't it ... ???

[RDJ]

I can't see in the figure's quoted ... what percentage of increase in the number of registered vehicles ... over that ten year period.

You would think ... if the Police "speed policy" has had no effect with the extra number of vehicle ... the road toll would be higher ...

18.4% increase over 10 years

BTW: the road toll does not have to be lower just because of targeting speed; there are many variables. Age of the fleet, experience of the drivers, length of the journeys, condition of the roads etc. etc. The speed policy has had a number of effects - not only (or even necessarily) the one that is commonly claimed by those who tout it as The Panacea.

[Katman]

There is a posted 25km corner not far from here that I can get around at 90km/hr on my R1,

Looks like we've found our next Skidmark.