Free tyres!

[cs363]

Facebook. It's just not right.

There, fixed that for you

[steve_t]

Perhaps others should heed my Mum's words of warning.

I must have missed those wise words. I'm guessing you're not referring to "Don't be a fool, wrap your tool"?

[JayRacer37]

First of all, I apologise for the quote festival I am having below. Secondly, I will add right from the beginning (so there is no confusion or doubt) that I work for the importer and original post maker (Eurotred NZ) and therefore any comment's may have a bias.

I dont believe top end sport tyres grip any better than top end sport tour tyres unless your prepaired to run 30 pounds (hot) in them and get them above 70 degrees in temp.So you need to speed and get 2000km life expectancy to make them worth while unless you like the look of almost no grooves in your rubber for factor.

Your just as likely to fail on a sport tyre running at under 70degrees as a touring tyre at normal operating temp.

Mossy, I would agree with you on the above point entirely, on the proviso you are referring to race DOT approved tyres (Pirelli SuperCorsa Pro, Bridgestone R10, Metzeler Racetec, Michelin Power One, Dunlop D211 GP Racer). These are indeed no better (and in many cases, worse) for ROAD use. They are designed for racing, and nothing but - cold use, wet grip and longevity have no place in the designs of these tyres, and they are not designed to provide grip below about 70deg. HOWEVER - a sports tyre (Bridgestone S20 (as being given away in this thread) Michelin Pilot Power 2CT, Continental Sport Attack, Dunlop Qualifier etc) are designed for road use, and in that have a lower temp window (say, 20-100deg) for use, they are designed including elements like Silica (for wet weather and cold condition riding) and then with Bridgestone elements like RC-polymer to control the temprature effects of Silica. These tyres are designed for Sport's bikes in road use. This means profiles that are made to suit bikes like that.

That's very tyre dependent. Some 'sport' tyres warm up very quickly.

Again, it's about choosing a tyre that's appropriate. And you're talking about cut racing slicks again. Those are generally inappropriate for the road because they work poorly in the wet due to lack of tread. (And sometimes due to temperature issues, as you say; Super Corsas being the worst offenders IMHO.)

Jrandom, agreed - as above, a DOT race tyre is not really appropriate for the road, and SuperCorsa's fall under that. a Sports tyre however, is road appropriate.

http://www.bridgestone.eu/press/pres...otorcycle-tyre


Ok i withdraw some of what i said because even though claimed tyre is track suitable its really only a sports version of battlax and not Super Corsa killing treaded race tyre that f2 will want to race on.

Yes, S20 is a development of BT016-PRO - a sport's road tyre. R10 is Bridgestone's DOT race tyre for 600 Supersport racing/F2.

We may be talking at cross-purposes, then. I wouldn't put a tyre on my bike that didn't work well in the wet, either. In fact I'd probably choose wet performance over dry performance.

I wrote my post with the Pilot Road vs Pilot Power question in mind. In that particular instance, there's never a good reason to choose the Roads. But other manufacturers undoubtedly offer different tradeoffs. And, for that matter, Powers are what I'd call 'sport touring'.

Wet grip is paramount.

I did exactly the same. BT020s are dangerous.

S20's could be for you then - in this particular market segment the Bridgestone's are renoun for their wet performance, and S20 is aiming to improve on that.

The 021s were little better than the 020s. I had 020s as OEMs on a ZRX1200R, ST1300 and an FJR1300T. My current steed had 021s as its OEM rubber. Podgy and lardarse on the handling stakes, skittery in the dry and disturbingly ambiguous in the wet. The rears outlast the fronts. Hence my reluctance, fuelled by online tyre reviews, to avoid the 023s. Meanwhile Bridgestone's competitors in the sports touring tyre market have had a considerable lead on them since 2007, a gap that Bridgestone hasn't closed even to that point. Meanwhile other manufacturers have since 2008 moved even further ahead with such tyres as the Avon Storm Ultra, Conti Road Attack 2 and 2 GT, Dunlop with the Roadsmart and now the Roadsmart 2, Metzeler with the Z8, Michelin with the Pilot Road 2 and PR3, Pirelli with the Angel, and so on.

Hitcher, I have to disagree with you here.

The first part of your post refering to OEM tyres is accurate. OEM tyres are usually, to put it bluntly, shit. This applies to all OEM tyres, not just Bridgestone, but Dunlop, Michelin, etc. There are many reasons for this which I won't go into her but the main one is cost to the manufacturers. My point is that a BT021 or BT023 OEM tyre (on a new bike) is not the same tyre or quality you will buy through a shop - the constuction and compound is different and almost always better.

The Rossos didn't suit the Suzuki. Even when they were really hot, they didn't feel any better in terms of their handling than the Z8s they replaced. When only warm they were very heavy on the steering stakes and uncertain handling in the wet, if the Waioeka Gorge in a thunderstorm is a good test.

I stand by my view that most riders, on the road, are unlikely to get a sports tyre's temperature to a point where it will materially outperform a sports tourer in the same conditions.

The Rosso's are a step further away towards race use than S20 Hitcher, they are similar to Bridgestone BT003-RS, or Michelin Power Pure - these are designed with trackdays and fast, dry road riding in mind.

I disagree with the second paragraph in that a sport's tyre for road use (as mentioned near the start of my reply) is a different animal to a race tyre that is road legal.

I offer you the Pilot Power 2CT and, quite possibly, the new Bridgestones that this thread is about as counter-examples that do in fact heat up quickly without being thrashed, and offer real performance benefits over longer-life tyres in all conditions.

Correct - these are examples of sport's road tyres, that do as designed what most race tyres cannot. Because of this they are often a better road choice for Sport's Bikes than Full Sports touring tyres (Bridgestone BT023, Conti Road Attack, Michelin Pilot Road 3).

Hope I haven't bored any of you to tears...

[nodrog:Me]

.... massive wall of text ...

So can I have some free tyres or what?

[JayRacer37]

To clarify on my essay above, tyre catogories seem to be the main issue here. Below are the catagories as I see them;

Sport-Touring
These tyres are designed for potentially heavier bikes (FJR1300, Bandit's etc). They are made for lower temprature applications (0deg to 80deg - ish). They include elements in the construction of the tyre to suit wet and cold weather riding (Silica). The profile is probably flatter than a sportier tyre and give very neutral feedback to the rider (they don't tip in rapidly, you will have to work a bit more to lean them).

Common tyre's in NZ in this catagory are; (I have only listed current model tyres to save confusion, and there are certainly models I have missed)

Bridgestone BT023
Michelin Pilot Road 3
Pirelli Angel ST
Metzeler Z8
Continental Road Attack 2

Sport's/Hypersports
These tyres are designed for sports bikes (600's and 1000's, and similar) that are used on the road. They would also be appropriate for bike's like Hayabusa/Blackbird, or naked or touring bikes that are ridden a little harder. They will usually have elements like Silica to give them better wet performance, in the case of some brands (Bridgestone being the one I am familiar with) have other additional elements like RC-polymer, which stops the Silica bleeding out of the tyre at higher temprature. This gives them a wider useful temprature corridor (say, 15deg-100deg - ish). They will likely have a slightly more agressive profile that makes the bike turn in quicker than a sport-touring tyre. They are still designed to be very competent in the wet and cold, and should give reasonable milage.

Common tyre's in NZ in this category are; (I have only listed current model tyres to save confusion, and there are certainly models I have missed)

Bridgestone BT016-PRO and S20, as featured in this thread
Continental Sport Attack
Michelin Pilot Power 2CT
Dunlop Qualifier (I think)
Pirelli Diablo Rosso II

Trackday - also think fast road use
These tyre's are made for very fast road use, and trackdays. There profiles probably mimic the full DOT race tyres, but the compounding is made so they don't require a warmer to get to the correct opperating tempratures. The temp corridors for these are likely 50deg-120deg. Because of this they won't be very friendly in the wet (no Silica) and they won't last as long (softer compuond, not as hard wearing).

Common tyre's in NZ in this category are; (I have only listed current model tyres to save confusion, and there are certainly models I have missed)

Bridgestone BT003-RS
Metzeler Racetec K3 compound
Michelin Pilot Pure
Continental Race attack Street
Pirelli Diablo Rosso Corsa

DOT race tyre
These are all about the laptime. Road legal but only because the class of racing specifies they must be. They are designed for warmers, and won't get warm enough without them. (temp corridor 80deg plus) They are not designed for wet grip, or milage. The profiles are ultra-agressive for racing, a potentially bad mix when the tyres are run without warmers, the feedback will be minimal.

Common tyre's in NZ in this category are; (I have only listed current model tyres to save confusion, and there are certainly models I have missed)

Bridgestone R10
Continental Race Attack
Michelin Power One
Metzeler Racetec
Pirelli Supercorsa Pro
Dunlop D211 GP racer (I think)


The tyre's Eurotred (NZ) are giving away to two guys to test are S20. They are designed for road use, up to and including the odd trackday, also for wet road use. For real world use on most sports bikes, they should be the best tyre avalible - this is what Eurotred (NZ) is trying to find out with this promotion!

Cheers Guys - pardon my spelling, I can't use a spell check on this PC

[JayRacer37]

So can I have some free tyres or what?

Depends if you get nominated or not!

[kiwifruit]

Jay for P.M

[BigAl]

Well, that clears that up then!

[Paul in NZ]

I'm guessing that some new rubber for my old (1980) Moto Guzzi is out of the question then? You know - narrow 18" wheels?

[mossy1200]

Depends if you get nominated or not!

Quickest way to kill a thread is with all the correct answers. Now what do we do? Thanks Jay ,going to need kick a ball around the park..Thread killer

[Hitcher]

Hope I haven't bored any of you to tears...

Tough call. I'm really struggling with your revelation that OEM tyres are different to the same models bought through a shop.

This is an arrangement that seems detrimental to the reputations of both the manufacturers of the tyres and the motorcycles to which those tyres are fitted. It's a revelation that also presumes that there would be some labelling distinction, so that manufacturers could distinguish between tyres in the event of a warranty claim being made. But perhaps they choose to swallow any and all losses on the basis that having been disenchanted by a suboptimal experience with OEM tyres, a rider will replace with the same model tyre when the OEMs wear out. It's also an arrangement, if indeed it is true, that paints a particularly bad picture of a tyre manufacturer's desire to make a sale at any cost.

In my case Mr Kawasaki, Mr Honda, Mr Yamaha and Mr Suzuki's decision to fit their steeds with OEM Bridgestones has resulted in a statistically repeatable trend of associating Mr Bridgestone's "sports touring" tyres with shit handling. That is why, like some professional tyre reviewers, I now subscribe to a view that the best fate for 020s, 021s and probably 023s, is to push them into a big pile and set them alight.

Thanks to your revelation I now know that I should get documentary evidence from Mr Bridgestone, on the unlikely event that I am ever tempted to try a set of his tyres, that the tyres I am about to buy are of a superior standard to those that may be fitted as OEMs.

[steve_t]

Tough call. I'm really struggling with your revelation that OEM tyres are different to the same models bought through a shop.

This is an arrangement that seems detrimental to the reputations of both the manufacturers of the tyres and the motorcycles to which those tyres are fitted. It's a revelation that also presumes that there would be some labelling distinction, so that manufacturers could distinguish between tyres in the event of a warranty claim being made. But perhaps they choose to swallow any and all losses on the basis that having been disenchanted by a suboptimal experience with OEM tyres, a rider will replace with the same model tyre when the OEMs wear out. It's also an arrangement, if indeed it is true, that paints a particularly bad picture of a tyre manufacturer's desire to make a sale at any cost.

In my case Mr Kawasaki, Mr Honda, Mr Yamaha and Mr Suzuki's decision to fit their steeds with OEM Bridgestones has resulted in a statistically repeatable trend of associating Mr Bridgestone's "sports touring" tyres with shit handling. That is why, like some professional tyre reviewers, I now subscribe to a view that the best fate for 020s, 021s and probably 023s, is to push them into a big pile and set them alight.

Thanks to your revelation I now know that I should get documentary evidence from Mr Bridgestone, on the unlikely event that I am ever tempted to try a set of his tyres, that the tyres I am about to buy are of a superior standard to those that may be fitted as OEMs.

Agree. What's the deal with that anyway? The BT-016s that came with the bike are totally shithouse compared to the replacement ones I got. I only got them because I'd read that the bought ones were better than the stock ones, even though they're the 'same' model.

[Hitcher]

Quickest way to kill a thread is with all the correct answers.

In that case, I think that this thread is still alive.

[jrandom]

Tough call. I'm really struggling with your revelation that OEM tyres are different to the same models bought through a shop.

I'm astonished that this is news to you. It was common knowledge when I was hanging out on uk.rec.motorcycles ten years ago and BT010s were the tyre du jour.

I agree that it makes no apparent commercial sense.

[Pussy]

Hitcher.... surely you jest?
The OEM BT 016 tyres ARE labelled differently.
On the 08-10 sem fiddy, for instance, the OEM rear BT016 was only two compound, not three as in the over-the-counter ones.
OEM tyres are often made lighter, or to a manufacturer spec.
Anyway... I digress... I WILL be trying the new ones.