Free tyres!

[JayRacer37]

All of this "oh and by the way everybody knows that OEMs are different to off the racks" has actually got me really steamed.

Are these new S20s being fitted to any bikes as OEM? If yes, are they are a "genuine" S20 or a Shit 20 invented by Bridgestone to get market penetration? If yes, what guarantee does a tyre purchaser have that they're being sold an S20 or a Shit 20?

This flippant revelation actually begs more questions, for me at least, then it answers.

Yes, S20 is currently on GSXR1000L2, the as yet unreleased new ZX14 and another model I can't recall off the top of my head sorry. The tyres on these bikes will all have their own specific constructions, and all will vary from a standard 'on the rack' tyre, for better or worse. The tyre purchaser can tell the difference because his manual will say 'BT016W' and so will the sticker on the tyre. The standard 'off the rack' tyre will not have that letter or designation. It has nothing to do with market penetration, more that Kawasaki want a cheaper tyre as they are buying many thousands of them, that also must do more than the top speed of the ZX14, for longer than a ZX14 can run on a tank, with well more load than a ZX14 is designed to have. This means a ZX14 can be sold into all world markets. We are lucky enough that we haven't be legislated out of having a better product for our use with 'aftermarket' tyres.

As an aside story, Bridgestone have a large share of the Japanese OEM tyre market as it was agreed in the 60's that the established bike makers would buy Bridgestone's tyres on the proviso they didn't release the bike they had been working on - Honda et al were scared of it.

[Pussy]

But a shifty is being done. People are being led to believe that what they're buying off the rack is the same as what's fitted as OEM.

Not being a smartarse... but I thought it was common knowledge about the difference.
There is no deception on the part of the manufacturers.

Hey Jay... gimme a set at cost to try!

[JayRacer37]

So tyre reviews published by internationally recognised reviewers are a waste of time then? I've never read a review that mentions whether a tyre is an F or a W, only good for German conditions, or whatever. If there are such differences, then why aren't these widely promoted or acknowledged in point of sale labelling?

Yes, my bike's suspension is not as good as Mr Ohlin's fine product. But Mr Suzuki has the good sense not to imply that it does. If Mr Bridgestone makes a tyre with the equivalent of a standard Bandit and a tyre with exactly the same designation as a Bandit with Ohlins, then why is that kept secret, or at least not fully disclosed to purchasers? I know which one I'd buy, particularly if the retail price was the same.

As Pussy has said no they arn't - they will be reviewing aftermarket tyres. And if you buy a tyre it will be an off the shelf tyre, unless you specify that you want the OEM tyre for your bike.

Mr Suzuki also don't advertise 'Not as good as Ohlin's' though do they? Using Ohlin's as an example again, the forks in a Aprilia RSV4 Factory are not as good as the off the shelf ones, and can do with an upgrade from Mr Taylor if you want the best from them...

[mossy1200]

Not being a smartarse... but I thought it was common knowledge about the difference.
There is no deception on the part of the manufacturers.

Hey Jay... gimme a set at cost to try!

Have bought 4 new big bikes and i didnt know and why would I know if i wasnt told.
They dont run big adds saying they have 2 standards oem and shelf stock.
if they need make tyres that will do 300 for a 45mins without bursting to sell in some countries why give that tyre S20 in the name at all.Why not call it a new name and explain in the handbook the reason why.

[Conquiztador]

As Pussy has said no they arn't - they will be reviewing aftermarket tyres. And if you buy a tyre it will be an off the shelf tyre, unless you specify that you want the OEM tyre for your bike.

Mr Suzuki also don't advertise 'Not as good as Ohlin's' though do they? Using Ohlin's as an example again, the forks in a Aprilia RSV4 Factory are not as good as the off the shelf ones, and can do with an upgrade from Mr Taylor if you want the best from them...

I am 100% with Mr Hitcher in this discussion. I had no idea that new bikes were fitted with a cheaper lesser quality tyre that to the "not in the know" pleb looked exactley the same as it's identical twin that has different genes. But as I never purchased a new bike this has never become a worry of mine.

Re the Ohlins suspension comparison, it is flawed: None of the bikes that are sold as new with suspension that is not up to the Ohlin standard has Ohlin shocks. I bet you that if the bike had Ohlin shocks when coming off the showroom floor there would be no question what the quality is.

And I also parrot the statement earlier that questions the logic in fitting a tyre that will perform not as good as the real thing. It might be the first time the bike buyer has trialled this make and model of tyre. And if he/she is anything like me and the tyre gives concerns, he/she will not buy a second one but change manufacturer.

[Pussy]

I bet you that if the bike had Ohlin shocks when coming off the showroom floor there would be no question what the quality is.

You'll lose that bet, then.
The Ohlins forks on say an 03 RSVR have what looks like cast iron pistons in them, don't use the bending shimstack mid-valve, nor do they have top out springs. They are VERY different to over-the-counter ones.

[Conquiztador]

You'll lose that bet, then.
The Ohlins forks on say an 03 RSVR have what looks like cast iron pistons in them, don't use the bending shimstack mid-valve, nor do they have top out springs. They are VERY different to over-the-counter ones.

You have just destroyed my trust in even the most reputable manufacturers products! Now I know why I since very small have always dismantled anything I get just so I can have a look what is inside.

[p.dath]

Tough call. I'm really struggling with your revelation that OEM tyres are different to the same models bought through a shop.

I'm with Hitcher. This is news to new that "similarly" labelled tyres can be quite different. I can understand why bike manufacturers might do it - price.

But to me this seems a very damaging thing to the tyre manufacturers brand. I understand it represents a lot of sales, but the potential damage to the brand ...

[Ocean1]

Re the Ohlins suspension comparison, it is flawed: None of the bikes that are sold as new with suspension that is not up to the Ohlin standard has Ohlin shocks. I bet you that if the bike had Ohlin shocks when coming off the showroom floor there would be no question what the quality is.

Many bikes come with Ohlins suspension fitted, brand new. If you buy aftermarket Ohlins they'll be spec'd for you, the roads you ride and how you ride them. In both cases I suggest you'd know exactly what you're buying.

I can understand why bike manufacturers might do it - price...

Best cost is a factor in everything anyone buys, it's not a factor only in the supply of low quality items. In this case I can sympathise with bike manufacturers, there's probably thousands of standards worldwide their products have to comply with. A tyre that meets all of them isn't likely to be one an individual would choose as a replacement. I, for one would rather wet performance wasn't sacrificed in order that the tyre meets some ill-considered EU requirement for extreem load carrying capacity.

[BoristheBiter]

Yes, S20 is currently on GSXR1000L2, the as yet unreleased new ZX14 and another model I can't recall off the top of my head sorry. The tyres on these bikes will all have their own specific constructions, and all will vary from a standard 'on the rack' tyre, for better or worse. The tyre purchaser can tell the difference because his manual will say 'BT016W' and so will the sticker on the tyre. The standard 'off the rack' tyre will not have that letter or designation. It has nothing to do with market penetration, more that Kawasaki want a cheaper tyre as they are buying many thousands of them, that also must do more than the top speed of the ZX14, for longer than a ZX14 can run on a tank, with well more load than a ZX14 is designed to have. This means a ZX14 can be sold into all world markets. We are lucky enough that we haven't be legislated out of having a better product for our use with 'aftermarket' tyres.

As an aside story, Bridgestone have a large share of the Japanese OEM tyre market as it was agreed in the 60's that the established bike makers would buy Bridgestone's tyres on the proviso they didn't release the bike they had been working on - Honda et al were scared of it.

It seems that there are a lot on here, I am one of them, that had no idea that they aren't the same tyres.
I have over the the last few years purchased 3 gixxers, at no time was i told that these are not the same as off the shelf and in fact on the one I am riding now there was even a discussion about them.

I have looked through both my owners and service manual and all I can find is what the tyre sizes are, not whats on them.

I guess the real reason they do it is the price as i guess that a mass produced inferior tyre is cheaper that a proper one.

[scracha]

When they bringing out an 18" front for my hypersports tedium?

[nodrog:Me]

yeah, what would the guy that sells tyres for a living know.

The 2 brand new bikes that I have owned have displayed some weird shit on their OEM tyres -

A K6 GSXR1000 which the front and rear tyres wore out at the same time and were completly rooted at 1500k's. And an 2009 ZX6R which did the same, except for lasting to about 2000k's.

Any off the shelf sets I have had, the front tyre outlasts the rear at aproximatly 1 front to 2 rears.

Or maybe it was just the shit bridgestones both bikes came out with?

oh, it looks like Jay isnt the only one talking shit, better tell these guys they are wrong too.

The original-equipment tires ordered by the manufacturers are mere shadows of their aftermarket siblings, hobbled by less rubber and lighter construction.

[JayRacer37]

I am 100% with Mr Hitcher in this discussion. I had no idea that new bikes were fitted with a cheaper lesser quality tyre that to the "not in the know" pleb looked exactley the same as it's identical twin that has different genes. But as I never purchased a new bike this has never become a worry of mine.

And I also parrot the statement earlier that questions the logic in fitting a tyre that will perform not as good as the real thing. It might be the first time the bike buyer has trialled this make and model of tyre. And if he/she is anything like me and the tyre gives concerns, he/she will not buy a second one but change manufacturer.

I'm with Hitcher. This is news to new that "similarly" labelled tyres can be quite different. I can understand why bike manufacturers might do it - price.

But to me this seems a very damaging thing to the tyre manufacturers brand. I understand it represents a lot of sales, but the potential damage to the brand ...

It's not something we like either, nor is it something we can control. The OEM tyres are avalible - but we choose to (in the majority of cases) not carry them as the consumer get's a better tyre in the full aftermarket, in most Hypersport's applications.

yeah, what would the guy that sells tyres for a living know.

The 2 brand new bikes that I have owned have displayed some weird shit on their OEM tyres -

A K6 GSXR1000 which the front and rear tyres wore out at the same time and were completly rooted at 1500k's. And an 2009 ZX6R which did the same, except for lasting to about 2000k's.

oh, it looks like Jay isnt the only one talking shit, better tell these guys they are wrong too.

Yeah man, I'm full of it!

[Bassmatt]

One of the larger issue's with OEM tyre's are that they need to perform to very different levels and standards. For example, TUV testing in Germany has a high speed/load test that means that the tyre must maintain a huge amount of temperature, far higher than you would ever experience or generate in normal use. Because of this, that tyre is not good without that load - it doesn't get hot enough to work under most normal riding. .

Not sure I understand this....if I am in a country where the oem tyre is necessary to meet a standard does that mean I wont be able to purchase the non oem tyre in that country? Why fit them at all then if the bike owner cant replace with the same model? (from a marketing point of view)

You'll lose that bet, then.
The Ohlins forks on say an 03 RSVR have what looks like cast iron pistons in them, don't use the bending shimstack mid-valve, nor do they have top out springs. They are VERY different to over-the-counter ones.

I would bet the shock on the RSVR doesnt have an equivalent over the counter model with the same model number like the tyres do. (?)

[SimJen]

I thought this was common knowledge! If you read international bike magazines and tests on new tyres they often talk about the various fitments and slightly different types available to different manufacturers.
Car tyres can have the same variations with the newer generations of the more track biased road legal tyres fitted to M3's/GT3's etc.