MOTO-NZ finally come up with something for all our money

[StoneY]

Not true - MotoNZ has copies of all of Lambs motorcycle research and they have also had a lengthy presentation from him. From all accounts it was very informative...

You call 15 minutes lengthy David? Because thats the time he got to present his data, and another 10 minutes of QnA.

As you were there (as was I) pray tell me how informative it was when Dr Lamb was (behind the scenes) accused of using biased data and targeted outcomes? The presentation was specifically on car vs bike collisions and what did it show us?
250cc bikes with learners under age 25 were OVER REPRESENTED in ALL crashes and in car vs bike we had 70+% fault landing on visiblity issues affecting the non motorcyclist.
PURE FUCKING GOLD

AND the fact there were so may errors in the data entry - 7100cc kawasaki's, 2,500cc bike with a learner rider on it.....

I would love you to write on here YOUR interpertation of Dr Lambs version of the truth versus the councils version...... especialy when you tell me Dr Lamb has been selective in his approach.

Oh thats right - Gareth might get upset at such honesty... forget it dude. Don't want the truth to over ride the instructions Nick Smith gave Gareth on what is acceptable and not etc.....
We would hate to see anyone on the MOTO NZ stick there necks out...... for us MOTORCYCLISTS would we?

The prime reason Morgan gave Smith FOR my sacking was that I blogged 'council business' on here, on Kiwibiker.
Specifically reffering to my posting Dr Lambs analysis on Kiwibiker at that ffs.
Never mind Dr Lamb's data was in the public by his own presentation at the Cashmere club 13 months before he met MOTO huh?

LENGTHY presentation my arse.
The guys from Hella trying to sell Hi Discharge LEDs got 4x as much presentation time as the good Dr and not ONE of their team is a world reknowned PHD are they? Or the head of The Australaisian Intstitute of Motorcycle Studies...

Dr Lamb deserves days of your teams time not bloody MINUTES for for fucks sake!

[StoneY]

You know this how? and if it happened do you believe that any of those sitting on the MOTO board have in any way been swayed?
Most in these threads have actually attempted to change things, have you?

He is one of MOTO NZ Mark.
Up until THIS post you have confronted him on, he was the one I had the most faith in!

Fact is Dr Lamb was given presentation time after months of my lobbying for this group to see his data.
He was treated with an amazing ammount of respect I may add, and the whole group was gobsmacked at his data.

However...as soon as he left the room, the accusations of 'targeted data mining' and other nasty alegations started rising the ugly heads, and as I have since come to appreciate this council aint about TRUTH, it is about satisfying the Ministers need to be seen to 'do something'.
Should send my MINISTERIAL LETTERHEAD written letter in which I was sacked because Morgan and a few others in this group had a cry to Nick, because they simply don't have the balls to stand up for whats RIGHT!

CORO LOOP - epic fuckin fail - thousands wasted for 7 replies - thats right 7. 7 people sent in information.
5 people and 2 pillions showed on the day and food for 300 (posh food at that) went to the city mission.

TEXT DUNG
FFS .... they put 30k aside for that when only 15k was ASKED FOR!!!! Tht's 30,000 registered bikes worth of contribution for one year - or - 5km worth of crash barriers (armco style) retro fitted with skid plates to stop YOU sliding underneath it.
I know I was present at the 'Forum of Motorocycle Clubs' meeting that came up with the fucking idea to start with.....
It was a request for 15k - somehow it was seen as such a WONDERFUL idea that one of thos 'decision makers' decided it could have 30K instead!
And that decision was made by no committee at all _ I was on the Projects Group. Came to a meeting one day to be told 30k was now allocated to this TEXT DUNG project - there was no vote - no group concensus - just the word coming on down this was now approved.
Utter bullshit.

[riffer]

So...

how long before David Crawford finds himself off the MOTONZ council for the crime of posting on Kiwibiker?

[StoneY]

So...

how long before David Crawford finds himself off the MOTONZ council for the crime of posting on Kiwibiker?

Frankly - I think it is high time motorcyclists started demanding results.
Also start demanding to know whats been spent and on what.

It is time for MOTO NZ to be accountable for SOMETHING other than a huge feed for the K Road homeless community.

I had loads of faith in this council until the coro loop debacle.
And TXT DUNG - I would like to know how many reports have been recieved, and how many farmers and transporters have had a tune up from those reports....
I will bet its less than 100 reports and guaranteed not ONE truckie or farmer has been contacted about spillage.

I want to see safety nets on the WRB's, and slide panels retro fitted to ARMCO, and moss removed from major motorcycle routes that have loads of shady days to let the lichen grow on the surface.
THAT would be far better value for our money than Hi Viz investigations, overspending on food for people who went to a bike rally instead, and funding research on bloody intersection behaviour.

[MSTRS:Me]

TEXT DUNG
FFS .... they put 30k aside for that when only 15k was ASKED FOR!!!! Tht's 30,000 registered bikes worth of contribution for one year ...

Hear ya, Stoney. The McSAC is worthy of our utter contempt and has earned every word of derision aimed at them. But...
I have to point out the glaring arithmetical error above. I don't seem to recall there being $1 added to MY rego...

[riffer]

And TXT DUNG - I would like to know how many reports have been recieved, and how many farmers and transporters have had a tune up from those reports....
I will bet its less than 100 reports and guaranteed not ONE truckie or farmer has been contacted about spillage.

I'm seriously thinking about bombarding MOTO-NZ with OIA requests. I wonder how far I'll get?

[bogan]

I'm seriously thinking about bombarding MOTO-NZ with OIA requests. I wonder how far I'll get?

Reckon it is about time for that sort of thing, got my two regos due in a few weeks, that'll make $120 they have taken from me so far. That's new glove money!

[avgas]

Thanks for the reminder - I just updated my rego being on hold.
Hopefully the MotoNZ accounts are starting to choke a little.

[Hitcher]

I'm seriously thinking about bombarding MOTO-NZ with OIA requests. I wonder how far I'll get?

I doubt that Moto-NZ is OIAable. But ACC, on the other hand, will be. Your first OIA to ACC should discover that.

A decent OIA campaign is one that requires just enough use of officials' and resources time to avoid being smacked for time-wasting costs, yet is hard enough work to press them tightly on their 20-day deadline. My nipples have hardened imagining the prospect.

I've been on the receiving end of enough of those over the years to know how the game works. If I'm ever able to retire, these sorts of pursuits could be a great way to fill in the evening hours.

[MrKiwi]

You call 15 minutes lengthy David? Because thats the time he got to present his data, and another 10 minutes of QnA.

As you were there (as was I) pray tell me how informative it was when Dr Lamb was (behind the scenes) accused of using biased data and targeted outcomes? The presentation was specifically on car vs bike collisions and what did it show us?
250cc bikes with learners under age 25 were OVER REPRESENTED in ALL crashes and in car vs bike we had 70+% fault landing on visiblity issues affecting the non motorcyclist.
PURE FUCKING GOLD

AND the fact there were so may errors in the data entry - 7100cc kawasaki's, 2,500cc bike with a learner rider on it.....

I would love you to write on here YOUR interpertation of Dr Lambs version of the truth versus the councils version...... especialy when you tell me Dr Lamb has been selective in his approach.

Oh thats right - Gareth might get upset at such honesty... forget it dude. Don't want the truth to over ride the instructions Nick Smith gave Gareth on what is acceptable and not etc.....
We would hate to see anyone on the MOTO NZ stick there necks out...... for us MOTORCYCLISTS would we?

The prime reason Morgan gave Smith FOR my sacking was that I blogged 'council business' on here, on Kiwibiker.
Specifically reffering to my posting Dr Lambs analysis on Kiwibiker at that ffs.
Never mind Dr Lamb's data was in the public by his own presentation at the Cashmere club 13 months before he met MOTO huh?

LENGTHY presentation my arse.
The guys from Hella trying to sell Hi Discharge LEDs got 4x as much presentation time as the good Dr and not ONE of their team is a world reknowned PHD are they? Or the head of The Australaisian Intstitute of Motorcycle Studies...

Dr Lamb deserves days of your teams time not bloody MINUTES for for fucks sake!

Brent - I'm not sure why you have reacted so strongly. The post I responded to said MotoNZ had done nothing with Charles Lamb work. That is not true. MotoNZ has his work, he was invited to present on it which he did and I personally have devoured all of it to understand it. He raises some very very good points. I shall not defend this any more other than to say I have read, understood and refer to his work.

On the rest I have noting to add.

[bogan]

On the rest I have nothing to add.

Seems to be the motoNZ party line, in more ways than one

[riffer]

Yes, well, in order to be consistent Gareth will now have to kick MrKiwi off MOTO-NZ as he's now commit the mortal sin of posting on Kiwibiker.

The precedent has already been set.

[StoneY]

I doubt that Moto-NZ is OIAable..

No - I think you can because in the first meeting before David joined us we were warned that anything we wrote down was subject to OIA enquiries.

Brent - I'm not sure why you have reacted so strongly. The post I responded to said MotoNZ had done nothing with Charles Lamb work. That is not true. MotoNZ has his work, he was invited to present on it which he did and I personally have devoured all of it to understand it. He raises some very very good points. I shall not defend this any more other than to say I have read, understood and refer to his work.

On the rest I have noting to add.

MOTO NZ simply started to look for the holes in Charleys data and the comments made on the day reflected that no one took on board he was refferencing Bike VS Other vehicles stats ONLY.
You yourself stated the discrepancies (like the 2,500cc zzr learner bike) were non factors -
Out of 50 samples (the fatalities that year) in which 15 were on 250xx bikes, make ONE of those bikes 2,500 cc's and the mean, average, everyting changes David.

unless the data is ACCURATE the analysis delivered from it is not accurate and therefore wirthless.

My strong reaction is because there has now been almost 3 years of contribution to the fund and what do we see from it?
A pretty website with nothing but pretty pictures.
Morgan pontificating on intersections and hi viz bullshit, when the issue is to make drivers aware of us

One thing that constantly made me sick with frustration at those meetings were the number of times we hear about the wonderful saer journeys strategies etc, when alll we need is awreness campaigns to LOOK FOR MOTORCYCLES and safety improvements such as Ken Beers demonstrated from Victoria

I have not seen any money from MOTO NZ spent on anything relevant to date.
TXT DUNG is a fucking abysmal waste of money, cow shit takes out less bikers than those fucking rumble strips do but dare raise that at a meeting?

CORO LOPP - tell us how many reports have been recieved/acted upon? 30k wasted of THESE guys money.

Oh and David, why are YOU allowed to post on Kiwibiker pal?

It always has been about making Nick Smith look like he cared, and its a fuckin waste of money if you guys continue to ignore the PHYSICAL IMPROVEMENTS to our infrastructure the Aussies presented to us

Rant over - feel good now

I have told every biker I know to place the rego on hold.
I have been pulled over twice now on held rego's and not ONE word from either cop even after the full wof check
Even they think this system is BS.

Spend my money on something relevant David, or all of you should just fuck off and give the money back to the bikers that paid it

[Smifffy]

That sounds like the makings of a good consulting gig

I doubt that Moto-NZ is OIAable. But ACC, on the other hand, will be. Your first OIA to ACC should discover that.

A decent OIA campaign is one that requires just enough use of officials' and resources time to avoid being smacked for time-wasting costs, yet is hard enough work to press them tightly on their 20-day deadline. My nipples have hardened imagining the prospect.

I've been on the receiving end of enough of those over the years to know how the game works. If I'm ever able to retire, these sorts of pursuits could be a great way to fill in the evening hours.

[MSTRS:Me]

On the rest I have noting to add.

Par for the course...

unless the data is ACCURATE the analysis delivered from it is not accurate and therefore wirthless.

Accurate and COMPLETE.
Nick the Prick 'made sure' that anything in the way of stats from the govt or it's political appointees should be treated with complete contempt, due to the rich smell of BULLSHIT!!

Spend my money on something relevant David, or all of you should just fuck off and give the money back to the bikers that paid it

Too right.