Do you know give way rules changing on 25 March? Give way rule quiz

**bogan** · 1st April 2012, 19:12

So I was pondering, but has the unmarked 4 way crossroads changed with the 'top of the t' bit as well? It doesn't appear to have been mentioned, but as far as I can tell, give way to your left (instead of the old give way to your right) covers the rest of the changes.

Anyway, my question is, car coming from west turning right to south; car coming round south turning right to east, who gives way?

It seems to me, that who gives way depends on whether there is a road heading north or not, which seems a bit of a shit way to do things...

Also, I did search, but couldn't find an answer.

**steve_t** · 1st April 2012, 19:32

I reckon the car from the west will have the right of way as per the uncontrolled T intersection rule, but the sooner NZTA sticks a couple of giveway signs there, the better

**Jantar** · 1st April 2012, 20:13

Originally Posted by bogan

So I was pondering, but has the unmarked 4 way crossroads changed with the 'top of the t' bit as well? It doesn't appear to have been mentioned, but as far as I can tell, give way to your left (instead of the old give way to your right) covers the rest of the changes.

Anyway, my question is, car coming from west turning right to south; car coming round south turning right to east, who gives way?

It seems to me, that who gives way depends on whether there is a road heading north or not, which seems a bit of a shit way to do things...

Also, I did search, but couldn't find an answer.

That situation has not changed. The car coming from the west and turning south gives way to the car from the south and turning east. Although both are turning right the car from the west has the other car on its right. Always give way to the right. There are no situations, ever, at an uncontrolled intersection where you give way to the left. You always give way to the right, or give way when turning right. The situation at the top of a T you would only be giving way to the left if the car approaching from your left cuts the corner. If it turns correctly it will be on your right when it crosses the center line.

**bogan** · 1st April 2012, 20:35

Originally Posted by Jantar

That situation has not changed. The car coming from the west and turning south gives way to the car from the south and turning east. Although both are turning right the car from the west has the other car on its right. Always give way to the right. There are no situations, ever, at an uncontrolled intersection where you give way to the left. You always give way to the right, or give way when turning right. The situation at the top of a T you would only be giving way to the left if the car approaching from your left cuts the corner. If it turns correctly it will be on your right when it crosses the center line.

That was my conclusion too, I don't think the center line crossing example you give is a good way to remember though, but if it works for you, all good! I'll just remember it as the T main road rule, and avoid unmarked 4 way intersections!

**imac** · 1st April 2012, 20:40

The top of of the tee change is because most road users seem to fucking stupid to understand the give way to your right rule. Fairly simple stuff. Now more confusion has been soweth. Perhaps if everyone didn't understand the don't rob banks rule that would be changed too.

**Motu** · 1st April 2012, 21:00

I've sorted how to get a trouble free left turn - don't indicate. If you indicate the right turning traffic thinks they have right of way...if you don't indicate they give way.

**merv** · 1st April 2012, 22:51

Originally Posted by Motu

I've sorted how to get a trouble free left turn - don't indicate. If you indicate the right turning traffic thinks they have right of way...if you don't indicate they give way.

Good one Motu, that will have worked well from 1977 - 2012 then also.

**Jantar** · 1st April 2012, 23:15

Originally Posted by bogan

That was my conclusion too, I don't think the center line crossing example you give is a good way to remember though, ....

Don't need to remember it, its just common sense. Give way to the right, give way when turning right.

I still can't think of any situations where you give way to the left. The top of the T may be construed as one example, but even here the new rule has been widely advertised and the reasons given so there shouldn't be any need to think through the situation.

**swbarnett** · 1st April 2012, 23:29

Originally Posted by Jantar

That situation has not changed. The car coming from the west and turning south gives way to the car from the south and turning east. Although both are turning right the car from the west has the other car on its right.

Apparently there are no intersections as described:

"6. What happens at crossroads where there are no signs or signals?
Intersections with four or more approaches always have signs on at least two
approaches or are controlled by traffic signals on all approaches. (Note: The only
intersections that can have no signs or signals are T-intersections and in that case
the new T-intersection rule applies.)"

from: http://www.nzta.govt.nz/traffic/arou...ve-way-qas.pdf

If you were to find an uncontrolled four-way intersection the same rule will apply as for a T. In the situation described above the fourth road is not involved in the manoeuvre and, therefore, does not affect the give way rule.

Originally Posted by Jantar

Always give way to the right. There are no situations, ever, at an uncontrolled intersection where you give way to the left. You always give way to the right, or give way when turning right. The situation at the top of a T you would only be giving way to the left if the car approaching from your left cuts the corner. If it turns correctly it will be on your right when it crosses the center line.

I think you will find that the whole point of these law changes was to change the "give way to the right" rule to "give way to the left". This is how it works in countries that drive on the right - you always give way to the side of the road you drive on (unless sign-posted otherwise).

**Jantar** · 1st April 2012, 23:43

Originally Posted by swbarnett

Apparently there are no intersections as described:

"6. What happens at crossroads where there are no signs or signals?
Intersections with four or more approaches always have signs on at least two
approaches or are controlled by traffic signals on all approaches. (Note: The only
intersections that can have no signs or signals are T-intersections and in that case
the new T-intersection rule applies.)"

from: http://www.nzta.govt.nz/traffic/arou...ve-way-qas.pdf

If you were to find an uncontrolled four-way intersection the same rule will apply as for a T. In the situation described above the fourth road is not involved in the manoeuvre and, therefore, does not affect the give way rule.

I can find quite a few four way intersections down here that are completely uncontrolled. The new rule does NOT say to treat them as T intersections. (eg intersection of Drybread Rd and Matakanui Rd)

Originally Posted by swbarnett

I think you will find that the whole point of these law changes was to change the "give way to the right" rule to "give way to the left". This is how it works in countries that drive on the right - you always give way to the side of the road you drive on (unless sign-posted otherwise).

Well to quote your link back at you:

5. Are we changing to a ‘give way to the left’ rule?
No. The left turn versus right turn rule is not about giving way to the left or right,
but simply establishing who gives way when two vehicles are turning.

Can you please give me an example where anyone gives way to the left other than turning out of the T?

**swbarnett** · 1st April 2012, 23:59

Originally Posted by Jantar

I can find quite a few four way intersections down here that are completely uncontrolled. The new rule does NOT say to treat them as T intersections. (eg intersection of Drybread Rd and Matakanui Rd)

That doesn't surprise me at all.

Originally Posted by Jantar

Well to quote your link back at you:
5. Are we changing to a ‘give way to the left’ rule?
No. The left turn versus right turn rule is not about giving way to the left or right,
but simply establishing who gives way when two vehicles are turning.

Indeed. On further investigation it seems I've been duped in to thinking our law makers actually have a brain. When I drove in Europe it was very clear that there was a "give way to the right" rule. I found this far more sensible than what we had here. If this were applied in NZ in the same way then we would have a "give way to the left" rule. I was obviously too quick to assume that this is what the changes were about. Now the situation is utter madness. Sometimes you give way to the left and sometimes to the right. At least before this change it was consistent.

Originally Posted by Jantar

Can you please give me an example where anyone gives way to the left other than turning out of the T?

It seems that in this fucked-up country there aren't any. There should be as I've desribed above.

**jasonu** · 2nd April 2012, 04:51

Originally Posted by bogan

So I was pondering, but has the unmarked 4 way crossroads changed with the 'top of the t' bit as well? It doesn't appear to have been mentioned, but as far as I can tell, give way to your left (instead of the old give way to your right) covers the rest of the changes.

Anyway, my question is, car coming from west turning right to south; car coming round south turning right to east, who gives way?

It seems to me, that who gives way depends on whether there is a road heading north or not, which seems a bit of a shit way to do things...

Also, I did search, but couldn't find an answer.

Wasn't there summat said along the lines of if you could get hit in the drivers door you are supposed to give way? That fits your situation doesn't it?

Are there really uncontrolled 4 way intersections in NZ? There are definitely none around here. All have 2 or more stop signs. The most common is the 4 way stop sign intersection where the rule is 1st stopped 1st go and it works perfectly. Courtousy comes into play when it is not clear who stopped first and judgeing from my last NZ trip that would be the down fall of that rule...

**Scuba_Steve** · 2nd April 2012, 07:38

Originally Posted by jasonu

Wasn't there summat said along the lines of if you could get hit in the drivers door you are supposed to give way? That fits your situation doesn't it?

Na thats the old rule, it used to be "if your gonna feel the pain giveway" (a good incentive not to fuckup) now with this inferior rule it's "if your gonna feel the pain your've got right-of-way"

**bogan** · 2nd April 2012, 07:54

Originally Posted by swbarnett

That doesn't surprise me at all.

They aren't found in too many places with a lot of traffic, so I guess we just hope courtesy will come in to play, and probably not wise for us to get too hung up on what the rules are!

Originally Posted by swbarnett

Indeed. On further investigation it seems I've been duped in to thinking our law makers actually have a brain. When I drove in Europe it was very clear that there was a "give way to the right" rule. I found this far more sensible than what we had here. If this were applied in NZ in the same way then we would have a "give way to the left" rule. I was obviously too quick to assume that this is what the changes were about. Now the situation is utter madness. Sometimes you give way to the left and sometimes to the right. At least before this change it was consistent.

It seems that in this fucked-up country there aren't any. There should be as I've desribed above.

But neither is it give way to the right anymore. It used to be, if their path will intersect with my drivers side, I'll give way. Now left turning goes first, as does top of the T. I think while it isn't too hard to remember, it is less instinctual than it could be. Why the fuck haven't we just changed it to give way to the left?