The firearm thread

[Fast Eddie]

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Thanks to Mr Merde I got a good contact to buy both blanks and live rounds for my little pistol. At the moment just trying to find out local laws and whether I would actually be able to buys some rounds (live hopefully) and recieve them in nz ex USA.. worried about siezure at customs etc. I dont know anyone with a gun license and I don't have one myself.. anyway hoping to get some rounds soon but at near 100 NZ bucks for 24 I wanna make sure they wont get seized hehe.

A little info from the people that sell the rounds in the states I think, copied and pasted from email - about my little pistol...

"... It looks to me like you have what is called a Berloque single-shot Pistol.

They are smaller, more powerful, and much more durable than other 2mm Pinfires (i.e. Xythos Revolvers, as the revolving mechanism gives out over time, which forces you to hold the hammer down to shoot.) The Berloque is also capable of firing three different types of ammo-blanks, round-nose magnums, and flat-nose wadcutters.

It is possible that there is no threading on your pistol. Berloques were made both with and without. Without the threading, you aren't able to attach a flare adapter for firing flares. Too bad!

You were lucky to come across this item. It is considered an antique and is very valuable!"

id love to learn more about it, it has no brand names or anything on it though just the stamped word Germany.

[jono035]

Thanks to Mr Merde I got a good contact to buy both blanks and live rounds for my little pistol. At the moment just trying to find out local laws and whether I would actually be able to buys some rounds (live hopefully) and recieve them in nz ex USA.. worried about siezure at customs etc. I dont know anyone with a gun license and I don't have one myself.. anyway hoping to get some rounds soon but at near 100 NZ bucks for 24 I wanna make sure they wont get seized hehe.

A little info from the people that sell the rounds in the states I think, copied and pasted from email - about my little pistol...

"... It looks to me like you have what is called a Berloque single-shot Pistol.

They are smaller, more powerful, and much more durable than other 2mm Pinfires (i.e. Xythos Revolvers, as the revolving mechanism gives out over time, which forces you to hold the hammer down to shoot.) The Berloque is also capable of firing three different types of ammo-blanks, round-nose magnums, and flat-nose wadcutters.

It is possible that there is no threading on your pistol. Berloques were made both with and without. Without the threading, you aren't able to attach a flare adapter for firing flares. Too bad!

You were lucky to come across this item. It is considered an antique and is very valuable!"

id love to learn more about it, it has no brand names or anything on it though just the stamped word Germany.

If you need someone with a FAL to import it, then you'll also need a permit to import. If that's the case, then anyone supplying the ammunition to you would probably be breaking the law.

If the pistol and rounds aren't considered firearms/ammunition under the Arms Act then you should be fine. Any ideas?

[Akzle]

permit to procure - at your copshop ask for a POL67C form.
ammunition may require another form the LE 2/1...

...i forget these things on tuesdays.

[jono035]

permit to procure - at your copshop ask for a POL67C form.
ammunition may require another form the LE 2/1...

...i forget these things on tuesdays.

POL67C is the application for a Permit to Procure and only applies to restricted firearms.

Not sure which form LE 2/1 is, but he needs an import permit.

[Winston001]

Did you read what you quoted?

DOH! Not properly. My bad and my apologies to Monsieur Le Scheisse.

[Winston001]

what 'law' are you referring to?

hint: quote the "Act" and "section" of New Zealand Legislation, that backs up what you're saying..

Steve's already covered this so just to add that much of the law is not written in parliamentary statutes. The words used in Acts are generalised so they are interpreted by the courts as time passes. To be technical, a crime consists of two elements - actus reas and mens rea neither of which are described by statute. They've already been defined by centuries of precedent.

yeah.... if you don't want to be shot by police don't be a criminal. or a courier driver...


but remember that guy who was stabbing people.. got shot in the arm and the hand. that's poor shooting right there. infact if they'd tasered him properly they wouldn't have had to pull pistol.

Actually I agree. Our armed police are possibly not trained to the level you'd expect but how do we cure that? Confidence and marksmanship can only be achieved by training and constant practice. In a nation where armed incidents are uncommon it wouldn't be easy to keep these guys in a high state of readiness. Or I could be wrong, just my take on it after talking to an AO instructor.

[Swoop]

My AR upper got put in the mail today with the big FO silencer mounted.

Silly question...
Suppressor made in NZ?
Who by and how much?

I have to get mine done and have been quoted around $500.

[jono035]

Silly question...
Suppressor made in NZ?
Who by and how much?

I have to get mine done and have been quoted around $500.

Not silly at all. I looked into all this back when I was considering my suppressed .303 project and I remember being surprised by how expensive it was.

I'm getting mine through Gunworks in Christchurch, $515 incl. That, for me, included freight in both directions (including organising pickup straight from my house), shortening the barrel, rethreading and recrowning, mounting the new foreend and then making the custom suppressor to match the diameter of the foreend, length of free barrel and my desired overall length.

They're an easy bunch to deal with. Robbie from Gunworks is a nice guy and very interesting to talk to. I probably spent a total of about half an hour talking to him about this project and suggestions for projectiles and powder for loading suppressed .30cal rounds.

I guess the price is up there, but it's ultimately a custom suppressor. It cost me $80 last time I had a barrel shortened, crowned and threaded (through Sportways Gunshed) so if you need that part of the service done, it saves a bit doing it together.

I just checked Gun City and they start around $500 for just the suppressor. There is a warning on the Gunworks website about low quality imported suppressors that are made to look like theirs. Closer inspection of the photos they provide make me think they're the Gun City ones.

I know where I'd spend my money. I was quoted $500 from Serious Shooters as well, but I'm pretty sure that was for a Gunworks suppressor.

It should be back on Monday, so I'll get some photos up then.

Edit: Just re-read what I've written, I'm not on their payroll, but wouldn't say no to a discount on my next one

[Swoop]

It should be back on Monday, so I'll get some photos up then.

Will look forward to seeing them!

I enquired with a few shops around town and SAI appear to go through MAE.
Reloaders have a gunsmith on retainer, as far as I can tell, but will not reveal who.
Goon City's cans appear "one size fits all" which is far from the truth with engineering tolerances and performance!

Robbie certainly has a good history behind him.

[Akzle]

Silly question...
Suppressor made in NZ?

have an ask at rev rog (sub silent supressors - te atatu)
scott traill maybe?
other wise gunworks are the most famous.

[Akzle]

Steve's already covered this so just to add that much of the law is not written in parliamentary statutes. The words used in Acts are generalised so they are interpreted by the courts as time passes. To be technical, a crime consists of two elements - actus reas and mens rea neither of which are described by statute. They've already been defined by centuries of precedent.

wrong wrong and wrong. what you refer to is a) case law and b) legislation.
the oldest actual law in existence is the magna carta, which was forced on some king or other by the people in the thirteenth century (and is still in force in NZ via the imperial application act) this of course only matters if you accept the jurisdiction/lawfulness of the NZ govt (they're actually defacto, and illegal)

mens rea is established in NZ courts when they ask if you understand the charges. that actually means, if you look closely, that you stand under the charge. fuck that.
and i think it's the crimes act that states "ignorance of the law is no excuse" -- so i don't think i'm comitting a crime when riding at 160km/h, but the NZ govt and their policy enforceres would say otherwise, but if i'm not standing under their charge, then am i guilty of a crime for doing so?

no mens rea, but an infringement against their legislation that they notice

woah.. huh. tricky shit ehh.
it's all semantics and it's all the game they play and it's all bullshit.

Actually I agree. Our armed police are possibly not trained to the level you'd expect but how do we cure that? Confidence and marksmanship can only be achieved by training and constant practice. In a nation where armed incidents are uncommon it wouldn't be easy to keep these guys in a high state of readiness. Or I could be wrong, just my take on it after talking to an AO instructor.

the average pistol shooter needs to put about 2400 rounds downrange to keep their licence, compared with the cops' 60 that is fucking pitiful.
i do NOT believe they should be armed as a mater of routine, i don't believe we have the crime to justify it and i can GUARANTEE that more people will be shot, guilty, innocent, civilian or police, now that they are. i do not believe anyone should have more rights than anyone else just for putting on a gang patch, whether it's black leather or blue vest.
the AOS is a separate entity from the beat police. i think they've shot dead (humanely executed) 17 odd criminals in the last couple of decades, compared with all the botched incidents with regular cops and guns. (foot shootings, jaghn molenaar, courier drivers etc etc)

[jono035]

Pistol shooters need to attend 12 shoots per year to keep their license. There is no requirement for number of rounds fired.

[Akzle]

Pistol shooters need to attend 12 shoots per year to keep their license. There is no requirement for number of rounds fired.

yes. and you're rightly. you're able to turn up at all 12 and not fire any rounds at all. but the average number of rounds fired at a shoot is 150-300+ depending on if you're shooting steels, service, IPSC, ISSF or NRA (did i miss any?)
it is my understanding that the armed police do not face this requirement. and in fact, their budget only allows for 60 odd rounds a year.

[jono035]

yes. and you're rightly. you're able to turn up at all 12 and not fire any rounds at all. but the average number of rounds fired at a shoot is 150-300+ depending on if you're shooting steels, service, IPSC, ISSF or NRA (did i miss any?)
it is my understanding that the armed police do not face this requirement. and in fact, their budget only allows for 60 odd rounds a year.

Woulda been easier to say that up front.

[Akzle]

Woulda been easier to say that up front.

no it wouldn't...

that's a whole extra paragraph, and it detracts from my hyperbolie and the point that the police are highly undertrained.