A unique problem with SI Buckets

**Yow Ling** · 24th June 2012, 16:23

Where's Waldo?

**F5 Dave** · 24th June 2012, 16:53

The vests are only effective if you have clear vision. If you are behind someone you can't see through them. That's racing, you have to draft & vie for position.

Last BOB there were only about 3 bikes that needed to be weeded out for safety sake. The bikes were just soo much slower than everything else. but if there was time in the meeting having a consolation shorter race for B's is an option.

Personally one could run a 50 class off the same grid if it were promoted. The 50GP held a few years back had about 13 entries because it was promoted so people dragged the bikes out.

**gav** · 25th June 2012, 18:31

So long as I don't have to wear a bloody vest ......

**Yow Ling** · 25th June 2012, 19:31

Originally Posted by gav

So long as I don't have to wear a bloody vest ......

Pedal faster !

**gav** · 25th June 2012, 20:53

Haha .... I'm not too sure what the answer is as far as BRMC being responsible for looking after the slower riders, apart from providing them with vests. As one who gets lapped by the fastest guys on a regular basis

it can be intimidating when youre not aware that someone is about to carve you up! My response use to be "farrrrkkkkkkkkkkk" now its more like "motherfucker .... grrrrrr"

It certainly can be hard not to flinch or change your line when someone nips up the inside etc ... and even more so if you are just starting out. I think the rest of the riders have to take some responsibilty too, if the guy you are chasing is going to pass a backmarker inside, probably best to follow him through rather than try and pass him on the outside at the same time. Unfortunately the short races don't help when using discretion when passing. But to be honest I've had more moments when racing with the streetstocks than I have had with buckets, some of those young guys are definately scary to race with!

**300weatherby** · 25th June 2012, 21:37

Originally Posted by Yow Ling

Up Norf where they run on Kart tracks, buckets get the whole track for the whole day, which allows them the luxury of being to run A,B, C grades. Down here its a bit different, we run as a single class slotted in amongst superbikes classics and whatever, so we dont get to seperate the really fast guys from the really slow, sometimes the closing speeds are very high.

With the BOB coming up soon we will have the same problem real fast guys and guys riding buckets that have been dragged out of the 80's and represent a danger to themselves and others when combined with a lack of experience.

Last weekend a new (old) guy was riding his second race meeting on his new to him bucket, a much faster rider passed him in the last corner on the B track, he got spooked sat up and crashed into the passing rider, went to hospital with a punctured lung and broken ribs.

Can we work out a way to get them introduced to racing by making newbies run in MCI development class untill they have some competence then join into the buckets. For some reason people think buckets is soft, I think its really tough and fairly hostile , which is what makes bucket s great, but we need to ease new people with no experience into the class, when Streetstock guys come over they well sussed and usually show the old guys the way round

Any one have an opinion on this ?

There is no answer to this problem without a timing system and cut off times. Am assuming you were at Rd 2 Bears Winter Series - In F1 Bears, same problem, really slow people that should not be on that grid (everybody does have their own class to race in) are causing heart attacks by the end of lap2 in a 6 lap Btrack race -

Bad start and into turn 1 in 4th, trapped behind a BMW 1000RR for the whole race, got past him on corner entry 4 times only to get screwed by back markers on the exit, the last one was an all out last turn pass to the flag, id him (backmarker) even as diving under the Beamer (yet again) , fixed his position and speed on the track, had my exit line sorted, nek minit.........

He was going really slow, my line was to go outside on the gas, only he felt the need to keep running out wider and wider on what he probibly thought was a fast race line, had to seriously grab the pics, overdid it, lost the front, saved it, picked it back up enough to hold the gas on the outside ripple strip (some fillings fell out at that point!), the Beamer beat me to the flag...... The vid was quite .....instructive

Was mad as hell at the time, I needed those points, but - I have been on the other side of the same problem, there is no answer, if you are the overtaker it is supposed to be up to you to make it work safely, in theory irrespective of the actions of the guy in front.

Superbike, 600's, Buckets, Clubmans, ect ect, the same problem is always going to exist, track time is expensive to source for the race meeting organisers and they cannot split classes to the inth degree to suit everyone. Unless you are willing to settle for less time and laps in your race.

Concrete pills for everyone. Take two if you need.

**husaberg** · 25th June 2012, 21:45

Originally Posted by 300weatherby

There is no answer to this problem

Was mad as hell at the time, I needed those points, but - I have been on the other side of the same problem, there is no answer, if you are the overtaker it is supposed to be up to you to make it work safely, in theory irrespective of the actions of the guy in front.

Superbike, 600's, Buckets, Clubmans, ect ect, the same problem is always going to exist, track time is expensive to source for the race meeting organisers and they cannot split classes to the inth degree to suit everyone. Unless you are willing to settle for less time and laps in your race.

Concrete pills for everyone. Take two if you need.

Everyone has been the bunny or at some time will be the bunny. if you think that isn't the case think again.

Vests are a workable solution and really the only workable one. That coupled with patience.( i think its a virtue)

Even at the highest level there is always the same problem. Remember Doohan was a little scathing of the back-markers. But everyone doesn't always win do they.

**Str8 Jacket** · 26th June 2012, 09:05

Threads like these definitely put me off considering coming down to the BoB and bucket racing in general TBH..... people start to think "I am too slow and dangerous and would probably just get in the "fast guy's" way".

**F5 Dave** · 26th June 2012, 09:30

Back markers one can cope with. its the super slow bikes that make sickening impact a possibility. I wouldn't rate you as a problem Hels. This isn't about a thread to bash the slower riders, I think its more about the bikes that just can't make the grade (at least that's my take). or perhaps Learners still learning how to change gear, that would be an issue.

**Shorty_925** · 26th June 2012, 10:18

Originally Posted by F5 Dave

I think its more about the bikes that just can't make the grade (at least that's my take). or perhaps Learners still learning how to change gear, that would be an issue.

Or is it the bikes at the front of the feild have gone too(or so) far in the pursuit of speed out of their machines? Thus in turn the riders at the back are perceived to be slower than they were before.

**Str8 Jacket** · 26th June 2012, 11:26

Originally Posted by Shorty_925

Or is it the bikes at the front of the feild have gone too(or so) far in the pursuit of speed out of their machines? Thus in turn the riders at the back are perceived to be slower than they were before.

TBH - that's my feeling. It seems easier to just go back to s/stock or minilites, at least you'll be racing against a bike of the same power (ish) and the skill levels are relatively similar.

**F5 Dave** · 26th June 2012, 11:38

No. You're not listening (if one can listen to the written word).

The biggest problem at the last BOB was super slow bikes which are almost parked. Throw in a large sweeper & a straight either side & it doesn't matter what you are riding. If you are racing in a group these guys can 'appear' ahead of you virtually motionless. Racing is racing & we know there are risks, but this is scary.

The BOB is a 55 min race. You have to cope with back markers in a way that doesn't show up on sprint races. But this goes beyond that.

**Str8 Jacket** · 26th June 2012, 12:36

Originally Posted by F5 Dave

No. You're not listening (if one can listen to the written word).

The biggest problem at the last BOB was super slow bikes which are almost parked. Throw in a large sweeper & a straight either side & it doesn't matter what you are riding. If you are racing in a group these guys can 'appear' ahead of you virtually motionless. Racing is racing & we know there are risks, but this is scary.

The BOB is a 55 min race. You have to cope with back markers in a way that doesn't show up on sprint races. But this goes beyond that.

I guess what I am saying is how things are interpreted.... If a possible Bucket Noob was to read this thread then they may just walk away and go race something else cause a) there is alot less politics and b) at least all the bikes power, set up etc will be similar in a controlled class.

These types of threads and comments are the kind of thing that puts noobs and even some of us not so noobs into entering things like the GP and BoB........

**richban** · 26th June 2012, 13:25

Originally Posted by Str8 Jacket

These types of threads and comments are the kind of thing that puts noobs and even some of us not so noobs into entering things like the GP and BoB........

You are put of by people trying to discuss making racing for all involved safer? WTF. Leave your personal issues at the door. This is about making racing safe. Nothing else.

Vests seams to be a hit so far. What rules regarding wearing one should we follow? First 5 races as a beginner? First 3 races when you change from B to A. New riders from out of town in any grade?