Speeding, is it the real issue?

[Fast Eddie]

"seatbelts save idots" is probably more apt.

The spelling mistake makes this somewhat ironic.

hahaha.... ahhh

i think we should arbitrarily limit your my ability to voice your my opinion.

yes.

... i'm a better driver with 2000mics of breath alcohol than most city-dwellers when they wake up.

haha! you are too much

[GrayWolf]

OK having lived in the UK and here, I've driven European roads ....
SPEED???
yes and no as far as the direct cause of deaths, injuries. Of course if you lose control at high speed the likelyhood is for more severe injury. probably the biggest 'killer' here is the roads themselves, gravel, poor construction methods, tight corners with ditches , and most roads have a plethora of lethal obstructions and roadside furniture. When compared to motorways in Europe, or A class roads, the highways here are substandard. So to my mind the greatest contributor IS the roads themselves, they leave little (at best) to no room for error at any sort of high speed.
Next contributing factor IS the safety system's themselves... the perceived danger is reduced with every new safety feature. As has been pointed out when they fail, or reach the point of no longer coping (traction control as an example) there is NO recovery from the following events for the average 99% of driver's/rider's, in effect the driving skills are being dumbed down. How often is cadence braking taught now? or how to control fishtailing? or skid control? We know that vehicle control computers are inevitable.. as described, speed, distance for braking etc will be controlled by a computer.... failsafe??? I know this type of technology is NOT failsafe from my work. We dont have distance or speed control but we do have traction and braking controls as well as electronic protection for the 'vehicles' themselves. often as has been found the 'protection's' are leaving the driver with anticipation of the safety features (equivalent of ABS) dropping out during reducing speed. So if anything they require a state of readiness of a different type when operating them. As much as it pisses off so many, there does need to be some control on power of ALL roadgoing vehicles... 200bhp is just fucking ridiculous, plain and simple. So is 3/4/500 bhp in cars.

The best form of safety is alertness, and training, training, training.... did I say training?? THAT is the one area the NZ Govvy seems to have bugger all interest in, advanced driver/rider training.....

[Fast Eddie]

200bhp is just fucking ridiculous, plain and simple. So is 3/4/500 bhp in cars.

replace ridiculous with fun and I'm with ya..

[Akzle]

The bench-mark for defining a dickhead lies in their firm belief in their ability to drive well when drunk.

that may be your bench-mark.
i'll put the challenge to ya tho. if i'm ever in your neck of the woods, i'll have a few bevvys then we can go for a spin eh?

i didn't say drunk. i said with 2000mics breath alcohol. that's probably still a while before i'll be "impaired".

studies have shown (UK one, i'm thinking of) that people are actually "better" drivers after 1-3 "standard drinks". go figuire.
maybe it should be mandatory to have a breath alcohol reading of 100mcg?

And so ends any credibility you had left.

Gosh, I'm glad you are such a shit hot driver. Wish we were all as good as you.

Yeah right.

shouldn't you be out enforcing policy somewhere? i just saw on the news that there's been some crime.
i don't think you or your kind are doing a good enough job.

as the public, your "service" is highly lacking.

PS, as an agent of a defacto institution that relies on bully-tactics, threats of force and deceit to take the benefits of people's sweat off those people, your view of "credibility" doesn't mean very much.

[scumdog]

. i said with 2000mics breath alcohol. that's probably still a while before i'll be "impaired".

I think you achieved that sober...

[scumdog]

PS, as an agent of a defacto institution that relies on bully-tactics, threats of force and deceit to take the benefits of people's sweat off those people, your view of "credibility" doesn't mean very much.

Sez fecin' who?

Nobody of importance or influence I'll be bound...

[The Singing Chef]

OK having lived in the UK and here, I've driven European roads ....
SPEED???
yes and no as far as the direct cause of deaths, injuries. Of course if you lose control at high speed the likelyhood is for more severe injury. probably the biggest 'killer' here is the roads themselves, gravel, poor construction methods, tight corners with ditches , and most roads have a plethora of lethal obstructions and roadside furniture. When compared to motorways in Europe, or A class roads, the highways here are substandard. So to my mind the greatest contributor IS the roads themselves, they leave little (at best) to no room for error at any sort of high speed.
Next contributing factor IS the safety system's themselves... the perceived danger is reduced with every new safety feature. As has been pointed out when they fail, or reach the point of no longer coping (traction control as an example) there is NO recovery from the following events for the average 99% of driver's/rider's, in effect the driving skills are being dumbed down. How often is cadence braking taught now? or how to control fishtailing? or skid control? We know that vehicle control computers are inevitable.. as described, speed, distance for braking etc will be controlled by a computer.... failsafe??? I know this type of technology is NOT failsafe from my work. We dont have distance or speed control but we do have traction and braking controls as well as electronic protection for the 'vehicles' themselves. often as has been found the 'protection's' are leaving the driver with anticipation of the safety features (equivalent of ABS) dropping out during reducing speed. So if anything they require a state of readiness of a different type when operating them. As much as it pisses off so many, there does need to be some control on power of ALL roadgoing vehicles... 200bhp is just fucking ridiculous, plain and simple. So is 3/4/500 bhp in cars.

The best form of safety is alertness, and training, training, training.... did I say training?? THAT is the one area the NZ Govvy seems to have bugger all interest in, advanced driver/rider training.....

I agree with the dumbing down of driving skills from driver aids, wrote up a page of handy skills to learn on the bike but have just got to get a bike so I can practice them now. Also in regards to training, will be touching on that later in the post. I think that is one of the biggest things that the Government could do to drop accident rates and have an overall better standard of driving.

Good on you Chefie, you have a point of view and you are working out your arguments.

Plenty of people moan and whinge but don't take the necessary step of formulating what bothers them.

More power to you.

Cheers mate, always interested in finding out more about things that I am involved in.

[Virago]

that may be your bench-mark.
i'll put the challenge to ya tho. if i'm ever in your neck of the woods, i'll have a few bevvys then we can go for a spin eh?

i didn't say drunk. i said with 2000mics breath alcohol. that's probably still a while before i'll be "impaired"...

If we can precede that with a physical demonstration of yesterday's claim that you can shrug off 10+ Amps of mains electrical shock - you're on...

[Ocean1]

Yea people are the main reason with the other factors coming in close second.

Some people. At least some people more than others. Just ask the insurance industry, they're the experts at determining who's more likely to fuck up.

Not to put too fine a point on it; it's the inexperienced, agressive little oiks in their shitbox fashion statement deathtraps.

One of 'em mouthed off at me for failing to give way to him at the end of a passing lane. Me. In the fully insured work hack. Idiot.

Anyway, if you want to lower the accident rate get the wee darlings off the road until they grow up.

Just getting statistics and data to back up my points some of which were linked in the text but I couldn't be bothered adding it onto here.

Waste of time looking, any data collected from the field has been well corrupted well before you get it. Before it's collected in fact, the reporting tool is usually well bent, so there's no risk of an embarassing result.

[Ocean1]

When you come up with a solution please try to make it practical to apply in real life to all drivers/riders. solutions that require differential application are a no go.

Why? That mandates a set of rules nescessary for the 1% that'll never be safe on the road.

Every one of us represents a very different set of risks on the road, why not legislate accordingly? Graduated licences already exist, where's the problem sticking a few more layers in there?

[GrayWolf]

replace ridiculous with fun and I'm with ya..

you do NOT need 200bhp to have fun on the road... thats just EGO yakking pure and simple..

I can handle it, I am a good rider...... Tui advert!!!!!!

[FJRider]

[COLOR="#139922"]i didn't say drunk. i said with 2000mics breath alcohol. that's probably still a while before i'll be "impaired".

We didn't say drunk either ... we put your impairment down to brain injury. If that is NOT the cause ... please enlighten us ...

[ducatilover]

shouldn't you be out enforcing policy somewhere? i just saw on the news that there's been some crime.
i don't think you or your kind are doing a good enough job.

as the public, your "service" is highly lacking.

But... he's a traffic cop He's probably doing a great job, however, the issue could be taken to his superiors, tell them Rastus needs to be in a burglary unit or summat?

you do NOT need 200bhp to have fun on the road... thats just EGO yakking pure and simple..

I can handle it, I am a good rider...... Tui advert!!!!!!

Power to weight is the key. 200hp in an FJ Land Cruiser? Probably not as fun as a 200hp Lotus Elise...let alone a 200hp scooter...or skateboard. A DC2 Integra Type R makes bang on 200hp, it's far more amusing than a VS Commodore running an EcoTec, which also makes 200hp.

But, that's jus' logic.

So, after all the bitching and pointless opinionated bleating in this thread (nice write up SingingChef) why hasn't everyone just agreed, drivers are the issue, training is nigh on non-existent and this is the cause of the problem. What the fuck else could it be?

[Akzle]

If we can precede that with a physical demonstration of yesterday's claim that you can shrug off 10+ Amps of mains electrical shock - you're on...

if you'd read further you'd'a learned that skin apparently isn't that conductive and the current was in the order of some hundred millamps. tickled, but.
asides, i never claimed it was more than 10 amps. i said it woulda been less than, on account of the fuse didn't go.
but good deal. i'll let you know when i'm in town.

But... he's a traffic cop

they still make them? i thought they went out with the mot...
i'm sure it takes a special breed.


speak for yourself FJ (not "we").
it was our mate ^up there who threw the word drunk into the conversation.

[Virago]

if you'd read further you'd'a learned that skin apparently isn't that conductive and the current was in the order of some hundred millamps. tickled, but.

Sigh. Yes, I know - it was me who explained it to you. I also explained that 60mA was more than enough to kill you. On that basis, I'd be happy for you to demonstrate the "some hundred milliamps".

...asides, i never claimed it was more than 10 amps. i said it woulda been less than, on account of the fuse didn't go...

Really?

...i've grounded 240v, as a child of ~10. lasted more than a few seconds before i kicked it off. wouldn't want to do it again, but not fatal. unfortunately didn't have the ammeter on me to check the current but it didn't blow the fuse so not massively more than 10...

But, who knows? Someone who can blow five times the legal alcohol limit and not be even slightly impaired, would likely be impervious to electrickery as well.

That, or full of bullshit and bravado. I'm sure we can work it out...