Gareth Morgan in the Herald on ACC levies for bikers

[gammaguy]

No, he didnt live. Also he did it in fucking Sweden or somewhere so it is completely irrelevant for present purposes.

which was nice of him as it is far cheaper to die than to be a drooling vegetable for the rest of your what passes for life

[MisterE]

...and while we are on the subject of the stats that mr morgan likes so much. Where are the stats that demonstrate moving to a privatised insurance system saves lives?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Been linked to many, many times on here before.

Someone with greater enthusiasm should be along shortly to provide a link.

OK, what evs.

I thought I had a fairly good handle on the stats from Morgans Kiwirider columns and such but that particular one didnt resonate with me.

[HenryDorsetCase]

...and while we are on the subject of the stats that mr morgan likes so much. Where are the stats that demonstrate moving to a privatised insurance system saves lives?

Its not about lives, its all about the money, honey.

[MisterE]

Um, no. It means 31% of motorcycle accidents we manage all by ourselves.

We are also responsible for about half the multi-vehicle accidents that make up that other 69%.

Back to Comprehension 101 with you.

Okay. So keen to get your opinion on the undeniably true and ridiculously inflammable stat "45 times more likely to crash per kilometre"

There are lies, there are damned lies, and then there are statistics.

Or let's look at it from the other perspective. Say Gareth wasn't intentionally hanging motorcyclists out to dry to push a right wing "sel it all" agenda. What stats could he have used to push something that might have a remote chance of actually saving lives? My beef here isn't with the numbers it's with how he has used the numbers to push an agenda that has no value whatsoever for the people who he is purporting to represent. Don't tell me you actually believe that privatising ACC is the magic bullet answer to reducing the road toll.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Um, no. It means 31% of motorcycle accidents we manage all by ourselves.

We are also responsible for about half the multi-vehicle accidents that make up that other 69%.

Back to Comprehension 101 with you.

You're a real winner (as in Charlie Sheen).

http://www.transport.govt.nz/researc...11-%281%29.pdf

In 2010, 50 motorcyclists died and a further 1,300 were injured in road crashes. This was 13 percent of all deaths and 9 percent of all reported injuries on our roads.

The first two of these tell the story.

Single vehicle motorcyclist solely at fault. 31%
Single vehicle no motorcyclist fault identified 2%
Multi vehicle (subjective opinion) motorcyclist primary responsibility 24%.
Multi vehicle motorcyclist some responsibility 7%.
Multi vehicle no motorcyclist fault identified 37%.

For more serious crashes, the motorcyclist is more likely to have the primary responsibility4 for the crash. The motorcycle rider has the primary responsibility for 68 percent of fatal motorcycle crashes, but the comparable figure for minor injury crashes is 50 percent.

This isn't a good look

Of motorcyclists involved in fatal crashes, 22 percent are affected by alcohol/drugs; 32 percent are travelling too fast for the conditions; and 44 percent are travelling too fast for the conditions and/or are affected by alcohol/drugs.

Page 69 of the historical data shows that ACC's move is much akin to shutting the door after the horse has bolted.
http://www.transport.govt.nz/researc...nd-crashes.pdf
In the 50's we were running around 480 accidents (and injuries) per 10000 registered bikes with the 60's at around 400, 70's at around 300, 80's & 90's around 270 and the naughties at about 130 (half of the previous two decades average????

Page 70 shows 55% crash injuries occur to under 40 year olds. Although according to later (ACC levy weighted surveys) this has reversed???

Interestingly the google search for "NZ motorcycle accident statistics" returned no results (that I could identify) for off road accidents and injuries.

http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=NZ%...=hp&channel=np


I strongly suspect that many if not all off road injury accidents (involving unregistered non targeted levy paying activities) are being lumped in with all of the above statistics. Until evidence of such records are provided I don't see my opinion changing.

But overall the proposed changes are better not worse (than current) imo.

[Katman]

My beef here isn't with the numbers it's with how he has used the numbers to push an agenda that has no value whatsoever for the people who he is purporting to represent.

Convincing us to crash less often seems like a pretty good agenda to me.

[rustic101]

Well I've just added my 5c to his debate on the MOTONZ site. If you can't beat them (god knows I'd love too) try and join them and influence from within.... Some questions are rhetorical but it would be nice to have answers.

Just registered my Bikes and Ute again and I was insulted further by receiving a flyer on motonz in the licence lables. So I have a few questions for the MOTONZ Chair or Council Members.

How are individuals selected to serve on the committee, or who appoints the Council members? There is not one member on this council that represents me!

When are the next round of elections/nominations/appointments?

How do I or other individuals express an interest in being nominated/selected/appointed?

Will MOTONZ open their books and be transparent around their outputs/funding/assets and expenditure?

What value added products/services/processes or procedures have motonz introduced or are introducing that are not already provided by other Agencies.

Further insult was added to my intelligence today when I read the majority of dribble in the Herald by Dr Morgan who portrays himself as an opinionated expert in motorcycling his opinions were extremely biased, manipulated and showed the true Political aspirations he has/holds or seeks. His views or opinions do not reflect those of mine or from what I understand thousands of other riders and vehicle owners.

Look forward to the response.

[Katman]

Further insult was added to my intelligence today.....

Surely you jest.

[Bald Eagle]

As I understand it Mr Morgan is by profession an economist ( nobody has yet succesfully explained what they do ) who had the good fortunate to make a shit load of $$$ by investing in his sons business and ride a motorbike a bit.

He somehow managed to get appointed to motonz and given the job of spending our $30 safety levy.

The MSAC now seem to be populated by political yes people and hiding behind the Ministers portfolios.

as rustic so pointedly asked when are they going to disclose to the people they purport to represent what they have been / are doing with all that lovely money. I have the strong feeling they have just become a little sub-department of ACC pending it's sale as an insurance company to Shonkey's investment mates.

Rant over of to drink more.... it seems to help with the voices.

[rustic101]

Surely you jest.

I'm jovial but never in jest...

[Parlane]

Convincing us to crash less often seems like a pretty good agenda to me.

I fell down the stairs....

Or the one where you say it was sex related and they write it down in some coded anonymous form.

[Katman]

I fell down the stairs....

Or the one where you say it was sex related and they write it down in some coded anonymous form.

Herpes is still herpes no matter how it's written on the form.

[Parlane]

Herpes is still herpes no matter how it's written on the form.

Who would rub herpes on a form!?

[bogan]

He also fails to understand the 'it'll never happen to me accident type', which I would guess as being the largest part. Sure they would pay more after the fact, but the change of levy structure will do nothing for the accident rate. Excepting stopping some getting into riding, and forcing others to hang up there boots. Personally, I'll just 'hang up' my rego.