Gareth Morgan in the Herald on ACC levies for bikers

[Murray]

I wish you well MrKiwi.

Get back on your crutches you crawler

See you Saturday

[avgas]

The AA represents the views of its members and the National Council of the AA know I am a strong advocate of motorcyclists and that I do take a different view to some of their advocacy to ensure us motorcyclists are heard. Wish me well...

Heard where?

[Shadowjack]

Whatever. Whats the best chain cleaner: Bollinger or Moet & Chandon?

Sheesh.
Laphroaig...

[Berries]

In fact research we've done at the Motorcycle Safety Advisory Council indicates that the risk of serious and expensive injury on a motorcycle is around 45 times higher per person-kilometre travelled as it is for occupants of other vehicles.

The principle is that those engaging in higher risk activities should pay more of its costs. And remember – as I showed in the series of articles written on http://motonz.org.nz/ – the chance of injury per person kilometre from on-road riding is up to 40 times as high.

At this rate of improvement we will be getting a rebate in a couple of weeks.

[MrKiwi]

Heard where?

I have discussions with the AA policy team and I'm known for robustly representing views of motorcyclists.

[mashman]

I am yet to see any real world safety measures put forwards by any agency. All I see is that 78% of all serious road injuries are car related (from memory based on NZTA crash data 2009)... that's vehicles that have actually crashed. Expecting me to believe that I am safer in a car is not going to happen. Go ahead and look at it from your vehicle type perspective, I won't. If 78% of the ACTUAL serious injuries are to do with cars, then doesn't common sense dictate that the more dangerous vehicle is the car in terms of total road users? and they have many many many more safety features than motorcyclists. I'll feel safer on my bike thanks! Motorcycles do not have the road to themselves, why should they be singled out for multi-category bias? Because money dictates that they should be held accountable. Did someone mention no fault?

To that end what are the chances of seeing the formula that is used to calculate motorcycle risk? I have a sneaky feeling that the greatest weighting will be to do with the crash stats of cars. Lots of them and you hardly see one without a dent or ding. Still, I'd like to see the formula.

[Bald Eagle]

Unfortunately there are a number of things we can't change;

1. We are socially unacceptable
2. We are an easy target politically because of 1. above
3. We are easy to collect revenue from as the mechanisim is already in place.
4. Too many of us ride like total dick heads and reinforce the stereotype from 1. above.


The only one we can change is 4.

[flyingcrocodile46]

I am, like all Council members, appointed because of my experience and skills I can bring to the Council's brief. There's no magic or mystery behind this, our briefs are on the MotoNZ website as are our terms of reference.

Too many words and not enough comprehension on the part of the average kiwibiker for that little gem to carry any weight around here.

Many don't appear to realise the limitations within which the council members must work, and the very limited potential of the council as a tool by which their 'bigger' ideas can be voiced to an audience which is both capable of listening and reacting in a meaningful way (not counting fluffers).

I know. Small steps must be taken before you can run, but MotoNZ are severely hobbled and in all likelihood the only sign of any running we will see, is from the area at the top of the legs.........





as a result of all those lamingtons.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Unfortunately there are a number of things we can't change;

1. We are socially unacceptable
2. We are an easy target politically because of 1. above
3. We are easy to collect revenue from as the mechanisim is already in place.
4. Too many of us ride like total dick heads and reinforce the stereotype from 1. above.


The only one we can change is 4.

That is the simple truth and fact is the only best place to start is with the single biggest cause of injury accidents. The 31% of us who can't stay upright and on our own side of the roads. Facts is facts and like it or not that is what is happening.

[flyingcrocodile46]

So while I hopefully have your attention, I would love to hear your thoughts on the ability level of the average motorcyclist in New Zealand, and how that level can be significantly improved. Soon after I bought my first bike I attended a training course with Pro-rider, and I was very surprised to see how many seasoned and confident riders on the course were riding with terrible technique. Poor technique, poor machine control, poor road-craft, poor understanding of the physics involved, and very little understanding of our own weaknesses.... I submit would these account for a huge number of injuries, both single vehicle and where others are involved.
My big concern is that there is so much more involved in safely controlling a motorcycle than a car, and yet there is no requirement, or really any incentive to learn properly. It sounds like you want to use ACC levies as the incentive, but I suggest the whole licensing system needs to be radically re-assessed to produce competent riders int he first place.

Looking forward to your further contributions.

Blair Shallard.

Top shit. We need to learn how to ride properly before being allowed on the road. The skills and concentration levels required to ride a motorcycle are significantly greater than that required to drive in an amoured armchair on 4 wheels.

[bogan]

I have discussions with the AA policy team and I'm known for robustly representing views of motorcyclists.

Does that mean the AA know you for representing our views? or we do? Cos if it is the former, I don't think cager's views on good representation for us mean a lot...

Top shit. We need to learn how to ride properly before being allowed on the road. The skills and concentration levels required to ride a motorcycle are significantly greater than that required to drive in an amoured armchair on 4 wheels.

Agreed with the first bit, not so sure about the second, it's just that cars are a lot more forgiving of cock-ups, does that mean users should be less worried about making them? All road users would benefit from extra skills, license test difficulty reforms across the board would get my backing! Biker only reform, not too sure, seems like targeting, but would be a step in the right direction, would probably back it provided the campaign was more about education than discouragement.

[flyingcrocodile46]

After reading some of the comments both here and on other sites I feel there are a few misconceptions out there. Here is a follow up article... http://garethsworld.com/motorbike-ri...d-to-get-real/

In direct response to Gareth Morgan,

Thank you for your enlightening and moderated thoughts (I understand you don't tolerate fools gladly).

I actually don't disagree with either the logic (and for the most part) the basis of calculation for the levy increase. I also accept that the targeting of bikers over other high risk activities is more likely a simple matter of expediency in respect cost of the application and collection of similar levies, rather than because we smell bad.

To complete my understanding and acceptance of the basis for the justification for and calculation of the levy I would ask clarification of only one simple statistical fact used in the calculation. That is the apparent lack of evidence to support the theory that the motorcyclist injury accident statistics do not include injury accidents statistics for off road sporting activities (such a track racing, motorcrossing etc). Surly with all the statistics that ACC have collected, they should have a separate set of figures for injury accidents for non road registered motorcycles?? As costs associated with those accidents are not supposed to be met by road bike riders but rather by the earner levy.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Agreed with the first bit, not so sure about the second, it's just that cars are a lot more forgiving of cock-ups, does that mean users should be less worried about making them? All road users would benefit from extra skills, license test difficulty reforms across the board would get my backing! Biker only reform, not too sure, seems like targeting, but would be a step in the right direction, would probably back it provided the campaign was more about education than discouragement.

For me a part of the driver is the difference in significance of the consequences but the real driver is simply that full control of bikes really does require a truckload lot more rider input and awareness (of the subtly of inputs) than that required of a car driver to achieve a similar level of control over a car. But yes, car drivers need to be subjected to increased education of awareness of the environment (incl bikes) outside the confines of their insulated cage interior.

[caseye]

Croc, you go to hospital in an ambo with a helmet it's automatically recorded as a "motorcycle accident" No matter the attire of the person concerned.
I can vouch for this from personal experience when the wife was taken to Muddlemoore after those pricks left car parts all through the Hunua gorge.One of which took her and her beautiful little cruiser out right behind me, where I could see and hear her hitting the road.

It was recorded as a single vehicle (motorcycle) accident, I asked the nurse filling out the form if she had ever been asked/requested to make it clear what sort of motorcycle was involved and where the accident occurred.

Her reply, "NO, never", far as we are aware its a bike accident that's how it goes down on the ACC report.
No effort to distinguish has ever been made as far as these A & E specialists are concerned.
Gareth? care to tell us how you guys get your information disseminated when we can't?

[Kickaha]

It was recorded as a single vehicle (motorcycle) accident, I asked the nurse filling out the form if she had ever been asked/requested to make it clear what sort of motorcycle was involved and where the accident occurred.

I asked my Doctor when I was getting treatment for a racing accident and although it was recorded as a motorcycle accident it was also recorded as happening "at a place for recreation" rather than "on the road"