ESE's works engine tuner

[wobbly]

What several are failing to recognise is that the big issue is the torque required AT WHAT RPM.
As above - making any sort of useable torque down at 7000 odd rpm in a 125 engine is simply a friggin joke - its absolutely impossible to achieve GP levels of bmep at 1/2 the rpm those engines turned.
Crank the rpm up to over 12,000 and the 28PS becomes easy, but then the torque needed drops commensurately.
My efforts with the 400 F3 engine in context are pretty impressive,working around a pair of cylinders on 102mm centres that came originally from a 250 design
a hundred years ago.
But in reality getting around 100 RWHp from a 400 is nothing great at all, if the design wasnt severely limited by road based cases then 30% more would be easily attainable - again,do the numbers.
The math and the dyno never tell lies.

[TZ350]

Theres still an issue with a delay coming back onto the throttle but Im sure we can sort this out.

Kel went realy well, it was exciting to watch. Hopefully it will be dry for him at the next meeting and he will have the traction to get some real power to the ground.

Kel reports that when the engine is reved right out and then after shutting off there is a delay coming back on the throttle. But by using the IgniTecs rev limiter he found this delay is not there if the engine is shut down earlier, like just a smiggin after peak power.

The delay coming back on the throttle had us looking at fuelling in the closed to quarter open area. but as it only happens when the engine is reved well past peak power I am starting to think that the problem is the fixed power jet going way over rich and loading up the engine, so that it takes a bit of clearing before coming back on song again.

Time to fit an electronic power jet then we can have the IgniTec shut it off in the over rev area, hopefully that will cure the delay and extend the over rev at the same time.

All said and done, Kel did pretty well I think.

[richban]

hey buddy I'm drinking from the same well, or getting there

Me 2. Plenty of us old boys going ok. The skinny kids will have to work for their wins.

[speedpro]

Hopefully it will be dry for him at the next meeting and he will have the traction to get some real power to the ground.

Traction control??

You know you want it.

[bucketracer]

Personally, I'm curious about the Manx Norton in your signature Fred...Protar kit is it ?

Here you go ..... Freds Manx.

[SS90]

So what's your point SS? Fastest bike doesn't get the win? It isn't a drag race & to be fair Kel isn't a young buck or anything. pointy end of field often is inhabited by such bods (some like Young Nat would be less than 1/2 his age & then some). That said, I found he was a damn sight faster than I thought he might be first time in wgtn.

My point is that it seems that for all this effort, the bike in question just seems to be being tuned to a standstill,
Earlier incarnations of this engine where reliable, and, by all accounts enough power to win.
I am curious as to how much power the engine Avalon Biddle used when she did the only winning Teram ESE has had (in the RS chassis) that apparently Chambers built.

People can jump up, Lay eggs, and wave pitch forks about all they like, I feel this is a valid point.

[bucketracer]

My point is ......

Mostly Sourgrapes ......

[wobbly]

I remember that it was reported on here that Avalons engine was 24RWHp.
She dicked everyone.
Fast bike,fast pilot,average engine.

But the real point is, that if you put her up against say NoMates RS100 on 28 Hp and she will get dicked every time ( but for sure wont smile as she normally would in that situation ).
Then put Hassan on 32 Hp and NoMates would crash into him to stop that easy win.
Forget a million ft/lbs, even around the goat track - a WELL EXECUTED full house 14,000 rpm engine with 32 RWHp and a 4000 wide powerband when used to its potential, is a forgone conclusion.
Why would this sport be different than EVERY other where a 2T has been well developed - fast and reliable.

The screaming 2T isnt easy to get right, but when enough people finally "get it " that lots of rpm and lots of power to suit the limited gear ratios available can be done,
then easy to tune and ride Diesels, would soon be a long forgotten dim memory.

None of the technology needed for 32RWHp is remotely spectacular or clever.
We had electronic powerjets on the TZ racebikes over 20 years ago,Honda gave in finally in 1998,no one in buckets has one yet????
Its simply a matter of climbing up the exponential learning curve of power and reliability hand in hand,and I reckon TZ is learning both,in public, very gracefully considering the sniping wankers on the sidelines giving forth
no REAL help at all.

[ief]

and I reckon TZ is learning both,in public, very gracefully considering the sniping wankers on the sidelines giving forth
no REAL help at all.

That's only about 0.2 % wob, 98 % leaches this thread like there's no tomorrow, the other ones you 'know'

ps: Am I the only one with engmod witch, once in a while, decides to mysteriously change some stuff only to leave you baffled for a while thinking what stupid thing have I done this time only to find out the port timings went from 128 to 140 or whatever?

[Haufen]

Kel reports that when the engine is reved right out and then after shutting off there is a delay coming back on the throttle. But by using the IgniTecs rev limiter he found this delay is not there if the engine is shut down earlier, like just a smiggin after peak power.

The delay coming back on the throttle had us looking at fuelling in the closed to quarter open area. but as it only happens when the engine is reved well past peak power I am starting to think that the problem is the fixed power jet going way over rich and loading up the engine, so that it takes a bit of clearing before coming back on song again.

So the problem is just ocurring after rolling with closed throttle? Or does it occur when accelerating through the gears, also?

[TZ350]

So the problem is just ocurring after rolling with closed throttle? Or does it occur when accelerating through the gears, also?

Good question.

Around Mt Welly Kel can get away with only two gear changes, one down at the end of the sweeper and one up along the front straight.

But whether its also a problem when just rolling off through the infield, I will have to ask.

[kel]

So the problem is just ocurring after rolling with closed throttle? Or does it occur when accelerating through the gears, also?

No problem changing up through the gears i.e. no problem when the throttle is closed for fraction of a second (Im that quick on the change). The problem is when the throttle is completely closed for a couple seconds after revving out such as when braking, if you then blip the throttle when changing down through the gears its as if there is no spark and then when you hammer it back open nothing happens again as if theres no spark, delay, then it hits and its off again. My uneducated guess is that the crankcase pressure drops so much that the exhaust gases travel into the transfer ducts and theres a delay while things equalise and burnt gases are flushed out, part of the reasoning being that this doesnt happen at lower revs i.e. if I only rev to say 10k I can shut the throttle for a couple of seconds and when opened it picks up immediately.

[Haufen]

I once experienced something similar. When in idle for too long, the engine would die or almost die as soon as I opened the throttle again, but the jetting at idle was far from being rich.

Found out my inlet manifold went downwards just a bit and the other half upwards just a bit, so at low throttle openings with too weak suction from the engine I had like a little puddle in the inlet manifold. As soon as I opened the throttle, all of that mixture got pulled in at once causing a very rich condition. Your problem sounds like something similar, only that your puddle might be caused by something (blowback?) that only occurs at very high revs.

[TZ350]

... if I only rev to say 10k I can shut the throttle for a couple of seconds and when opened it picks up immediately.

This suggests to me that the low end carburation is not the problem, and the problem is someplace else like a crankcase full of exhaust gas or loaded up from an over rich power jet. The simplist thing to try next is an electronic PJ.

Anyone with any thoughts on other possibilities...

[TZ350]

Found out my inlet manifold went downwards just a bit and the other half upwards just a bit, so at low throttle openings with too weak suction from the engine I had like a little puddle in the inlet manifold. As soon as I opened the throttle, all of that mixture got pulled in at once causing a very rich condition. Your problem sounds like something similar, only that your puddle might be caused by something (blowback?) that only occurs at very high revs.

Actually come to think of it, like yours did, there is a place in our inlet manifold that a puddle can form and I often see a lot of oil collected there. Also Dave D told us he had a similar problem coming back onto the throttle, for him it was an over rich low end carburetor setting that was loading his motor up.

So a temporary over richness might very well be the problem. Thanks for the idea.