Are the boys at BSB with their "stock" superbikes onto something?

[Mental Trousers]

Your last sentence may be debatable Shayne! Within the tighter rules they may have to spend more tedious time with careful attention to detail to make the stock stuff work half acceptably and have a decent service life. Or simply have to keep throwing more ''inferior'' and lower life expectancy parts at the bikes during the season. I believe the reality wont all be a bed of roses, especially for the engineers.

yeah I know mate. When the rules bring things closer to stock it's all about optimizing what you've got so that you're not losing out. But it also shortens the life of the stock stuff dramatically when you're wringing everything you can out of it.

[codgyoleracer]

can i not build a 2stoke superbike thats legal then

You already have.... :-)

[scott411]

Good post, - however solid regs and proper technical checks have been wanting for a very long time, but Billy has a cunning plan !

i am sure with the new extra charge for a national liceince, that they will bring their technical checks up to the standard of other motorsport's in NZ,

[steveyb]

I realise it is not BSB racing, nor 'Superbike' racing as such.
When living in the UK in 2005/06 I took the opportunity to attend the Phase One Racing endurance race team open day and team member drive at their HQ in Somerset.
Aside from winning the rear wheel changing race, the take home message for me was around the engines.
In the old days the team manager and engine builder said that they would do alot of work to the engines (ZXR750, GSXR750's) which took time and money.
However, when they switched to Yamaha R1 he quickly discovered that if he tried doing stuff to the engines he would lose HP and reliability for endurance racing. So all he did was strip the engines, clean and de-bur them, blueprint and reassemble. I am sure he said that he didn't even need to balance them.
But of course for sprint racing there is plenty that can be done.

Just an observation, maybe a propos of nothing much.

Told youse, scrap all these big bikes and go 125GP/Moto3 racing.

[Shorty_925]

Yip and its something we are already looking at for 2014 as you well know "Codgy",Most likely 600s but I have had atleast 1 top level supers competitor suggest the same for the big class as well with the backing of his distributor.

Thats good news. Is the thinking, is by keeping costs down, this should in theory attract more to a class? As Choppa said, tyres are the largest expenses, limiting the number of tyres a rider can use per event would be a good start. Limiting what could be done to a bike and the amount of tyres per meeting is what attracted myself to 650 Pro Twin.

[Shaun]

yeah I know mate. When the rules bring things closer to stock it's all about optimizing what you've got so that you're not losing out. But it also shortens the life of the stock stuff dramatically when you're wringing everything you can out of it.

A STD non modified engine will last heaps longer than a tuned one dude

[slowpoke]

"Change only occurs when the pain of staying as you are is greater than the pain of making the change" .....or summat like that.

Sounds about right for this argument, eh? BSB was definitely in some serious pain trying to maintain WSB spec bikes in this economic climate. It's not just about cost either, I reckon there's an argument to be made for a much improved viewing spectacle. Gimme laps with sideways, one wheeled action and I couldn't give a rats if it's a second or two slower than a gyro/GPS controlled slotcar-like bike, and there are plenty of folks who feel the same.

NZ is a lil' different but it's easier to keep the bag closed than let the cats loose and have to try and herd 'em in again later. Do we really want to see engineers staring each other down with laptops at 10paces in the NZSBK paddock? As it is we've got BMW's and hopefully Duc's with pretty farkin' sophisticated TC/anti-wheelie/launch control/data acquisition that WSB bikes would have loved just a few years ago....vs a shitty add-on Bazzaz (or similar) unit cobbled onto the Suzuki's/Honda's/Yamaha's. That will surely soon change with new models, which sounds good in theory, but it's just going to be the start of a whole new arms race in the pits.

NZ isn't in quite the same pain as the UK, and making the whole paddock make wholesale changes is a tricky business. But I reckon it's well worth/discussing.

What do the riders/sponsors/manufacturers actually participating in the championship now think?, they are the ones doing the hard yards each season. Are they happy to keep spending up large to even up the bikes or would they prefer a cheaper, less sophisticated option that may mean greater disparity? Does the price of entry building/buying a competitive bike actually put people off entering? Or is it just another case of Arsenal supporters (I'm gunner...I'm gunner...) spruiking things up then rummaging around in the "convenient excuses" drawer when push comes to shove? The whole Superstock thing was a pretty disappointing exercise.

Good thread GeeDubya!

[Mental Trousers]

A STD non modified engine will last heaps longer than a tuned one dude

Yeah I realize that mate. I was meaning those that squeeze every little bit out of the standard engines chew through the stock bits a lot quicker. They're the ones who spend crap loads of hours on the dyno, match and balance everything, optimize the hell out of the entire bike etc.

[Grumph]

A STD non modified engine will last heaps longer than a tuned one dude

And away we go....Shaun, mate, define "stock" and "non modified".....

We both know that a motor built properly from scratch using OE factory bits (call them stock if you like) but with non standard clearances and tighter tolerances will both develop more power than when it came out of the factory door, and last longer too...

Tony Scott in the UK has been quoted as saying most of his race motors ended up back on the road and still healthy.
He's the prime example of fanatical blueprinting but there are others around.

Locally I did a CBR600 way back which blew TZ's away for 5 or 6 seasons then went back on the road....it's not hard, but it does take time which people are reluctant to pay for...and if you're going into it that deep, may as well do some serious upgrades too.

I've been involved in stripdowns when we had proddy classes....interesting viewing. But when you do find something blatantly illegal and the rider appeals using backing from a distributor who says the illegality "wouldn't have made a difference"....what can you do.

[Kiwi Graham:Me]

I realise it is not BSB racing, nor 'Superbike' racing as such.
When living in the UK in 2005/06 I took the opportunity to attend the Phase One Racing endurance race team open day and team member drive at their HQ in Somerset.
Aside from winning the rear wheel changing race, the take home message for me was around the engines.
In the old days the team manager and engine builder said that they would do alot of work to the engines (ZXR750, GSXR750's) which took time and money.
However, when they switched to Yamaha R1 he quickly discovered that if he tried doing stuff to the engines he would lose HP and reliability for endurance racing. So all he did was strip the engines, clean and de-bur them, blueprint and reassemble. I am sure he said that he didn't even need to balance them.
But of course for sprint racing there is plenty that can be done.

Just an observation, maybe a propos of nothing much.

Told youse, scrap all these big bikes and go 125GP/Moto3 racing.

I worked with Phase one in the Kawasaki (world champion ) days and can tell you Russell spent hours blue printing motors for the race bike but the qualifying bike had all the kit stuff in and cost an absolute fortune. The two motors side by side were poles apart in bulid costs and maintenance costs. Yes blue printing is time consuming but the end result is a reliable as well as powerful motor that will long outlast a kit motor and a shit load cheaper to put together.

As with alot of privateer manufacturer supported teams all we were given were two bikes, clutches, pistons and rods. The rest we had to buy. If back then we could all have run on a cheaper, level plaing field the money saved would have been enormous. As has been stated several times the tyre budget (Dunlops back then) was huge and carted a horse float full of them around Europe every other weekend, wets, slicks and intermediates of all compounds. I would have hated having to write the cheques he did.

[Kevin G]

Ill be getting my after market discs from overseas. I support the local markets that support us. By that I mean if the product is in stock in NZ ill buy it from NZ. If they have to order the product themselves then im not going to pay extra to wait longer for the product

The problem with this statement is that if this is the common opinion then pretty soon all the rest of the NZ wholesalers will walk away from supporting the sport. It is complete and utter bollocks to have an expectation that the NZ importers will have everything on the shelf just waiting for some super star racer like you to come along who wants to pay nothing for it.... absolutely laughable...You say support those that support you...yet you will buy from overseas to save a few bucks.
Do you honestly expect importers to have fairings exhausts, rotors, and everything else you may or may not desire on the shelf and then sell it to you at next to cost...DREAMER!
The NZ road race champs used to get support from most if not all the major wholesalers, now we have 1 to 2 at best and the reason is because the racers do not support them...they buy from overseas because its a few dollars cheaper.

I know some things are significantly cheaper overseas and my rant does not apply to all.

Kevin Goddard

[discodan]

I have always supported the idea of only running Supertock 600 and Superstock 1000 classes and have voiced that many times before so this idea gets my vote.

A couple of points that I don't think have been raised yet though...

• It's worth mentioning that a race bike can sometimes be put back on the road and sold as a newish model road bike to help pay for the latest model for next season.
• I think this has been mentioned but it becomes more important to check that bikes are within the regulations when the rules about mods are tighter so this would have to be considered.

Also, there is very little prestige in the the stock classes at the moment because they just get lost amongst the faster bikes. After my first super stock 600 race, even I didn't know if I had won the race or not let alone any of the spectators.

[Kevin G]

The reason why we dont buy anything from your is for one the man that pays the bills things your an absolute wanker. I told him you cant help that, you just have short mans syndrome.

Secondly your service is shit, you advertise fairings in a picture but the kit doesnt include what is in the picture. You dont respond to emails. You dont hold stock for the most popular latest superbike. Your delivery time was like 8 weeks when I can get them in 2 weeks and much cheaper. I have put several sales your way and I get comments from you like this?

Thanks Chop, I was generalizing about the issue not in any way referring to what I do or do not do. One thing is for sure I am short and some may say a little over weight but I have done more to support the sport than you ever have, of course without you we would not have our sport (I read this in another of your reputation building posts).
I stand by my comments, if the general trend is to buy offshore then the industry will walk away from the sport. I do not mean me either I mean the big boys (main stream importers)
I am sorry that you have found my service to be "shit" That is certainly not what I try to achieve.
Good luck.

[CHOPPA]

Thanks Chop, I was generalizing about the issue not in any way referring to what I do or do not do. One thing is for sure I am short and some may say a little over weight but I have done more to support the sport than you ever have, of course without you we would not have our sport (I read this in another of your reputation building posts).
I stand by my comments, if the general trend is to buy offshore then the industry will walk away from the sport. I do not mean me either I mean the big boys (main stream importers)
I am sorry that you have found my service to be "shit" That is certainly not what I try to achieve.
Good luck.

You were not generalizing you were being a wanker and you know it.

I do so much for the sport, way more than you bla bla bla I have heard it all before. Not sure what that has to do with it. Everybody does there bit, some more some less.

[RobGassit]

The smell of burning bridges on here is almost overwhelming.