Welfare support and drug testing

[Berries]

HO HO HO.


Hornby joke.

[Akzle]

There is no point ... thats what makes the thread so funny.

you f*ing moron.

[avgas]

[husaberg]

It's not that funnel at all, some don't learn a signal thing. Where do you draw the line in regards to govt handouts? When you're old and f rail, a pensioner, you shouldn't get to choo choose what you spend your money on? Begs the question, when is it fare to clip the govt ticket? First class citizens arguing that the second class citizens should be in economy before being allowed to have a platform to build a life on... all the while claiming that we should mind the gap. Tunnel vision from the fat controller and friends. There's no buffer anymore and every declares that's it's a free ride... good job that so many of you are heavy sleepers.

Your post got me thinking Pensioners pay Income tax on there pension that's right Tax on something created out of er..... Tax

[Akzle]

Your post got me thinking Pensioners pay Income tax on there pension that's right Tax on something created out of er..... Tax

it's like cops paying tax. or politicians.

i can't believe this BS should surprise you.




(no train puns. sorry)

[husaberg]

it's like cops paying tax. or politicians.

i can't believe this BS should surprise you.




(no train puns. sorry)

No Sorry i don't aggree Cops should pay tax as thats income. But the pensioner is meant to maintain them so why tax.
it makes no sense the tax money goes nowhere it never left the Winz building did it.

[FJRider]

it's like cops paying tax. or politicians.



(no train puns. sorry)

On that train of thought ... Cops and politicians pay their own wages ...

So ... it's fair to assume, they decide how they do their job ... or have I got it wrong again

[husaberg]

On that train of thought ... Cops and politicians pay their own wages ...

So ... it's fair to assume, they decide how they do their job ... or have I got it wrong again

I suppose so in a very small way... a very small percentage of it goes to their wages but remember healthcare ACC and so on as well.
But both esp the politicians get some quite impressive no taxed perks as well

I think society should be judged on how they treat their children and there elderly.

Well NZ sends them to school in buses driven by people on Miniumn wage by companies that submit the lowest tender.
The elderly are looked after for the main by for profit corporate organisations that pay there employees again barely minimum wage.

[mashman]

No Sorry i don't aggree Cops should pay tax as thats income. But the pensioner is meant to maintain them so why tax.
it makes no sense the tax money goes nowhere it never left the Winz building did it.

I think he meant that every govt employee, beneficiary or service is paid for using tax payers money that has already been taxed... or is at least borrowed on the promise of tax from a future generation.

[husaberg]

I think he meant that every govt employee, beneficiary or service is paid for using tax payers money that has already been taxed... or is at least borrowed on the promise of tax from a future generation.

Granted but the reason for that % of the money collected as tax was to pay for the pay of say the policeman so its still different in IME
But i get his point maybe some people think of the pension as income, i don't. i think of it as society paying back the elderly, so they can live.
But i certainly think wages paid to School teachers Public nurses are income so should be taxed regardless of the source of the money.

[mashman]

Granted but the reason for that % of the money collected as tax was to pay for the pay of say the policeman so its still different in IME
But i get his point maybe some people think of the pension as income, i don't. i think of it as society paying back the elderly, so they can live.
But i certainly think wages paid to School teachers Public nurses are income so should be taxed regardless of the source of the money.

I don't think anyone is arguing that, as FJ points out, who else is gonna pay the police? (other than a few corporations )... but the principle is the same, paying tax on something that has been paid for using tax.
I get what you're saying and I agree with the sentiment, but it's still paying tax on something that has been paid for using tax. I seem to remember my economics teacher saying for every $1 that goes in to the govt, it's pumped back into the economy as $3. Tis a shame that we have to think like that at all, especially when you consider that they've ALL contributed their lives to NZ and yet few have been fortunate enough to have a decent enough paying job that will have allowed them to have lived, "better". Tis a crime that they have to sell what they have to pay for being looked after in their retirement too. Claw back's a bitch eh.
I'd rather we just ditched the financial system entirely, then we won't have to teach or care to a budget.

[husaberg]

I don't think anyone is arguing that, as FJ points out, who else is gonna pay the police? (other than a few corporations )... but the principle is the same, paying tax on something that has been paid for using tax.
I get what you're saying and I agree with the sentiment, but it's still paying tax on something that has been paid for using tax. I seem to remember my economics teacher saying for every $1 that goes in to the govt, it's pumped back into the economy as $3. Tis a shame that we have to think like that at all, especially when you consider that they've ALL contributed their lives to NZ and yet few have been fortunate enough to have a decent enough paying job that will have allowed them to have lived, "better". Tis a crime that they have to sell what they have to pay for being looked after in their retirement too. Claw back's a bitch eh.
I'd rather we just ditched the financial system entirely, then we won't have to teach or care to a budget.

Well sorry i still can't fully grasp your point and i think the premise is being carried too far.
My opinion is if a income (wage)for doing a job is paid, it has to be taxed regardless where it came from. That's my take on it.
I see both of yours and respect what you are saying, i just don't agree that some employees should have to pay tax because of who they work for.

Its a shame really we need so many police, social workers, case workers, politicians, legal aid etc.

Economics yes that's a special little subject in its self
Gee the market economy sure works well (as long as you are at the top of it)

[mashman]

Well sorry i still can't fully grasp your point and i think the premise is being carried too far.
My opinion is if a income (wage)for doing a job is paid, it has to be taxed regardless where it came from. That's my take on it.
I see both of yours and respect what you are saying, i just don't agree that some employees should have to pay tax because of who they work for.

Its a shame really we need so many police, social workers, case workers, politicians, legal aid etc.

Economics yes that's a special little subject in its self
Gee the market economy sure works well (as long as you are at the top of it)

weeeeeeee round and round we go.

If the non-govt employee stops paying taxes there are no wages for govt employees/services. I think we all agree that income needs to be taxed irrespective of where it comes from else there's no police, social workers, case workers, politicians (no bad thing), legal aid etc... I'm not saying that anyone should be exempt. Just pointing out that, as other were alluding too, those receiving govt funds as income pay tax on the tax we've paid to pay their wages... same as the money pensioners receive. It may not be "right", but hey, it's the law. The money comes from the same place for all of them.

[husaberg]

weeeeeeee round and round we go.

Yip

If the non-govt employee stops paying taxes there are no wages for govt employees/services. I think we all agree that income needs to be taxed irrespective of where it comes from

Yes

Just pointing out that, as other were alluding too, those receiving govt funds as income pay tax on the tax we've paid to pay their wages...

No i don't agree those receiving their income from the Govt coffers have to pay income tax on there income it just so happened that this money came from either a tax (or in the future the sale of an asset). the double dipping on the tax you are alluding to is just an accounting transaction the transfer on money never actually happens.(other than out of the gross wage obviously)

It may not be "right",

Tax is right (for real) income earners just not for the pensioners or beneficeries.

[Ocean1]

I seem to remember my economics teacher saying for every $1 that goes in to the govt, it's pumped back into the economy as $3.

Think you might have that one backwards, mate.

I think we all agree that income needs to be taxed irrespective of where it comes from else there's no police, social workers, case workers, politicians (no bad thing), legal aid etc...

Like fuck we do, there were all of those things way way before the English invented direct tax on income a mere couple of hundred years ago to fund the war with France. It was only ever intended to be an emergency measure and in fact the local unwashed rioted a decade later and and it was repealled and all trace of the records of it publicly burned.

Later attempts remained simply because they were structured so as to advantage a voting majority, basically theft by popular demand.