MOTO-NZ finally come up with something for all our money

[bogan]

It's completely mind-boggling that despite being warned, motorcycle lobby groups haven't put up a decent defense or have imploded rather than work as a team. Divide, conquer, spread misinformation. Make sure that the biggest case of active discrimination in NZ history looks like the Government were just trying to save the morons from themselves. Sort of similar to the way the Chinese were Ghettoised for 100 years in NZ society and despite the existence of the death penalty on the statute books the casual murder of first and second generation Chinese immigrants was quietly ignored. Unless you were stupid enough to kill a random OAP in Haining St, even then you'd end up in a mental institution rather than face the wrath of the law.

The problem here is there wasn't a binary event to kickstart such a movement. MOTONZ came into being with enough promises to placate 90% of bikers, so nobody could organise against it. Another 10% every few months might realise that they are just goverment lackies, but the preceding 10%s have either stopped paying regos, or given up and just accepted the levy, so there still isn't enough to organise against it.

I'd love to be proved wrong, and would make an effort to turn up to any organised actions, but I won't be making any more efforts to lead the charge.

[swbarnett]

Check out Page 62 of the NZTA Safer Journeys document, the bullets and the text below. It seems that:

Yellow headlights
An additional running light mounted on your helmet
Additional running lights spread out over your handlebars (or mounted on/in your fairing) and down your forks

could well be on the way.

Michael

There is only one appropriate response to both of these. Or, for that matter, any other bullshit "safety" device they try and shaft us with. I, for one, will be saying it publicly it they try - GET FUCKED!!!!

[MrKiwi]

What sort of initiatives? Compulsory modifications or additions to the motorcycle and/or rider equipment? Stuff that motorcycllists have to buy, either directly or "NZ only" stuff added to the cost of a new motorcycle? Or stuff that, if we forget or don't want to do whatever it is, will result in further opportunities for police to ticket and fine us or issue demerit points? I rode with headlight on during the day for some 30 years of motorcycling. Now if I forget or have a bulb burn out I get a ticket and fine. More of the same?

Why are we left guessing when MotoNZ claim (on their website) to be reflecting the interests and ideas of the motorcyclist community?

Left, with every other motorcyclist, to decipher the smoke signals from afar, this looks to me also like a process for ACC and NZTA to be able to claim "motorcyclists support compulsory hi-viz clothing laws".

Michael

I'm not into compulsory modifications, but there are some things many bikers would like to be able to do with their bikes to make them more conspicious, while others will choose not to. For example I currently run extra lights on my bike that I believe are not within the law. I'd like the option for them to be.

I've already commented on compulsory hi viz clothing - not if I can help it irrespective of whether not I choose to wear it. The thing about hi viz is you do not need a law change for a rider to wear it if the rider so chooses to do so.

[MrKiwi]

What is painfully clear is that Moto NZ has no ideas about things that can be done to sensibly improve the welfare and safety of motorcyclists. That's hardly surprising, given that it is a high risk endeavour and most things that work have already been implemented. Regrettably things like "idiot moments", of which we are all capable when we least expect them are beyond the scope of legislators, unless they ban motorcycling entirely or price it off the charts.

The Moto NZ cowshit campaign was an absolute waste of time, well the "dob in a trucker or a shitty road" website was. Effluent discharge from stock trucks could be sorted within weeks, if the Highway Patrol made it a priority. All they need to do is to follow laden stock trucks up hills and then prosecute the companies involved. It's so disturbingly simple to do, one wonders why it hasn't been.

Similarly diesel leaks. These only come from trucks. Trucks with poorly fitted fuel caps that have generally been overfilled. Again it's not hard to develop a standard and to enforce that. If the MTA are so hell-bent on six-monthly WOF inspections, I'm sure its members will be foaming at the bung to deal with a compliance issue that saves lives. It's a bit harder for the Highway Patrol to observe diesel leakage than it is for cowshit exudates, put I'm sure they wouldn't mind stopping trucks about half a km up the road from their depot or other points of refuelling, checking for seepage and then prosecuting the bejesus out of offenders. Word would get around. CB radio works well like that.

A fixation with hi viz apparel is also an absolute waste of time. If riders think that wearing it makes them safer, well bloody good show. Let them. However I believe that homoeopathy of the highway should not be legislated.

Apart from the first sentence, good post, I agree with much of what you say.

[GrayWolf]

james D is 100% correct... 'we deserve everything we get'... thats the public perception..no matter what we say or do, untill we enable a massive shift in public perception that 'bikes are dangerous'.... We 'deserve everything we get' as far as legislation goes in the eyes of 'joe public'.. and as has been pointed out innumerable times, Our 'Squiddish behaviour' seen by motorist's is never going to aid our cause.

Hi-Vis Vs bike mods? It's either got to be a huge market (like Euro market) so a 'Govt enacted requirement' has teeth to affect a change by manufacturers, OR, like France without the backing of the EEC body in this instance, has effected a law in their own country.. NZ govt requiring manufacturers to fit day lights etc? IF they factory fitted, manufacturers will pass on the full cost to the buyer, whereas in Europe? The market is so vast, the cost is reduced by sheer numbers. Yamahonsukasaki Will simply refuse to factory fit for just NZ, so the option is, legislate the end user 'Us'; smaller number and easier to 'control' to enforce the requirement.

Again referring to JD's post.... and I would like to ask any of the MAG reps who may read this to contact MAG uk, and ask if there is any information still around concerning the 'scrap' over the Leg protectors fight. It may bring a few to some realisation just how much that 'win' was only bought about by massive effort (on the part of MAG/FEM) and sheer cohesive weight of numbers protesting.

[Ocean1]

The Moto NZ cowshit campaign was an absolute waste of time, well the "dob in a trucker or a shitty road" website was. Effluent discharge from stock trucks could be sorted within weeks, if the Highway Patrol made it a priority.

Wonder what's going on here: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/7847...-to-slick-road

"Weather conditions" doesn't sound likely to be the primary variable if four went down.

Riding the new bike north out of Wgtn last Fri in light rain I was surprised how little traction was available on the shiny black stripes across the motorway. The front might as well hve been on ice, it just went straight ahead no matter what the steering head angle at the time.

Two weeks before that on the 1125 traversing the Rimutakas I had to damn near get off and park it, there was diesel from arsehole to breakfast.

Bike's have just the one track, but that makes us well more than twice as vulnerable to either inbuilt traction issues or trucks and busses spewing diesel everywhere. Time someone put their hand up, here.

[MrKiwi]

Wonder what's going on here: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/7847...-to-slick-road

"Weather conditions" doesn't sound likely to be the primary variable if four went down.

Riding the new bike north out of Wgtn last Fri in light rain I was surprised how little traction was available on the shiny black stripes across the motorway. The front might as well hve been on ice, it just went straight ahead no matter what the steering head angle at the time.

Two weeks before that on the 1125 traversing the Rimutakas I had to damn near get off and park it, there was diesel from arsehole to breakfast.

Bike's have just the one track, but that makes us well more than twice as vulnerable to either inbuilt traction issues or trucks and busses spewing diesel everywhere. Time someone put their hand up, here.

I raised with the NZTA some weeks ago the strips across the motorway. I commute each day on my motorbike and those are very tricky in the wet. The NZTA said they were using a new more durable compound and it should become less slippery over time. I'm yet to see the evidence of that!

[bogan]

I raised with the NZTA some weeks ago the strips across the motorway. I commute each day on my motorbike and those are very tricky in the wet. The NZTA said they were using a new more durable compound and it should become less slippery over time. I'm yet to see the evidence of that!

Doesn't all get less slippery over time? And by getting more durable stuff it just makes that time take longer?
Definitely have to watch for them, especially when riding into the sun in wet conditions. Good plan to carry some polarised specs if that is a likely scenario.

[Ocean1]

The NZTA said they were using a new more durable compound and it should become less slippery over time.

That's nice, we'll wait until then shall we? If you can find some actual numbers to put alongside the words "NZ Standard #### requires a minimum coefficient of friction: ####" then I can tell you if they meet that after about 30 sec on site.

Actually, I can tell you now, the only thing preventing regular bloodshed is the fact that they’re not on much of a curve. I hit the first one changing lanes, I won’t be doing that again, they’re fucking lethal.

[MrKiwi]

That's nice, we'll wait until then shall we? If you can find some actual numbers to put alongside the words "NZ Standard #### requires a minimum coefficient of friction: ####" then I can tell you if they meet that after about 30 sec on site.

Actually, I can tell you now, the only thing preventing regular bloodshed is the fact that they’re not on much of a curve. I hit the first one changing lanes, I won’t be doing that again, they’re fucking lethal.

I wasn't impressed with their answer or that they seemed quite happy to ignore bikers less than happy experience riding over that shit

[Berries]

I wasn't impressed with their answer or that they seemed quite happy to ignore bikers less than happy experience riding over that shit

Doesn't go well with the whole Safe Roads and Roadsides and Safer Journey for Motorcycles does it? What is needed is some group that purports to represent motorcyclists to roll up its sleeves and sort it out. It might be one way of gaining some respect because so far, no offence, I haven't seen anything worthy of my $30 a year.

[MSTRS:Me]

...What is needed is some group that purports to represent motorcyclists to roll up its sleeves and sort it out. ...

What a novel idea!!

[oneofsix]

I wasn't impressed with their answer or that they seemed quite happy to ignore bikers less than happy experience riding over that shit

But isn't that typical. Talk to cagers that have never ridden a 2 wheeler, pushie or motorised, about the white line issue and watch their eyes glaze over. Had a conversation with one that has 10 years experience over moi, mentioned that most cagers had understand the occasional squeal at the lights etc where there were painted lines was due to the paint and all of a sudden the light went on.
Four bikes went down at National park due to slick roads but how many cages got frights or left their lane slightly and have no understanding of why? All vehicles have to have minimum tread depth for the sake of grip but the road surface doesn't have to have minimum grip?! - really?
You drive/ride based on certain assumption about road grip, not sure what they are but you know them, you see a smooth patch you expect less grip but within certain parameters, you see newish road (clear of leftover chips) you expect good grip and ride accordingly. If NZTA are fucking with our learnt assumptions then they are playing a dangerous game.

[p.dath]

Doesn't all get less slippery over time? And by getting more durable stuff it just makes that time take longer?

Not necessarily. Any surface which becomes more polished generally offers less grip (tyre micro-hysteresis). The grit in the tar seal is a prime example - it does become more polished with use.

...All vehicles have to have minimum tread depth for the sake of grip but the road surface doesn't have to have minimum grip?! - really? ...

I'm not 100% sure, but I do think that the specifications given to contractors to build the roads does have a friction co-efficient specification.

[Conquiztador]

"Ride to the conditions" we will be told. I can not get my Pilot 2's to let go in the wet. And that makes me very happy. So then I start to trust the tyres and become a little more brave... until in an unexpected spot I come across a new piece of tarseal that creates havock and makes me go sideways in the corner. But the biggest proble is that I did not bring spare undies...