Could you have avoided this?

[jrandom]

built into us from millenia spent running away from animals...

Or chasing them.

[R-Soul]

Seriously dude, how much do you think you have to turn the bars to effect a direction change in the wheels? Gyroscopic forces do play a part, but fuck all when the degree of turn is so minimal.

It was not the question of turning the bars - it was the direction in which the bars are to be turned. It simply did not occur to me to turn them in the OPPOSITE direction that I wanted to go. As I said, I did not get much opportunity to play with motor bikes as a teenager. So when I did get to ride a motorbike, I treated it like a bicycle, and tried to steer it by leaning my weight to the side I wanted to go. This works with lightweight bicycles at low speeds. This does not work with motorbikes, and gyroscopic forces of relatively heavy wheels turning at high speeds play a huge part in keeping the motorbike upright against riders weight leaning off the side. This is why steering by using weight or leaning will never get you through a set of chicanes. For any real corner taken at speed (which I encountered 500meters down the road), my technique was hopelessly inadequate (at the time).

Lets put it another way. Do you realise that riding in a straight line on a bike, you are actually weaving from side to side slightly. Espescially at low speed. This is done by counter steering. Did you have to teach yourself to stay upright in a straight line on a motorbike too?

As I said, balancing is one thing, and my mind had not taken "balance" on board as part of "steering" (at the time). Now I obviously know a lot better. The fact is that using countersteering as a technqiue is just not intuitive.

Please, warn all motorists that you intend to ride, so they have the option to stay home. You're doing it wrong!

I was talking about my experiences some 20 years ago, as a newbie, before I had an opportunity to ride a lot more. I now believe that my riding is better than average because of the work (practical and theory) I have put into understanding the hows and why's of riding technique.

I also dont appreciate your aggressive comments, when I am trying to put in a word of explanation to help newbies.

[caseye]

R-Soul, you have been here for a while now, surely you know who is truely being a troll, being smart or just trying to get you to say it out aloud.
This is KB and despite what many here think the majority of people who do post regularly are in fact interested in making sure that those who come along here and ask questions and for real advice,l get it!
None of the more recent posters would ever consider giving you a bum steer????

LOL pun intended.
But they will stir you up and laugh at your peeved response, that's part of the fun.

So, Give advice based on your own experiences and opinions, but do be prepared to take a bit of flak occasionally when someone else decides to stir you up a little
over what you may have said.

[R-Soul]

Or chasing them.

The ones that chased them died ages ago from starvation. The ones that ambushed them live on...

[Drew]

It was not the question of turning the bars - it was the direction in which the bars are to be turned. It simply did not occur to me to turn them in the OPPOSITE direction that I wanted to go. As I said, I did not get much opportunity to play with motor bikes as a teenager. So when I did get to ride a motorbike, I treated it like a bicycle, and tried to steer it by leaning my weight to the side I wanted to go. This works with lightweight bicycles at low speeds. This does not work with motorbikes, and gyroscopic forces of relatively heavy wheels turning at high speeds play a huge part in keeping the motorbike upright against riders weight leaning off the side. This is why steering by using weight or leaning will never get you through a set of chicanes. For any real corner taken at speed (which I encountered 500meters down the road), my technique was hopelessly inadequate (at the time).




As I said, balancing is one thing, and my mind had not taken "balance" on board as part of "steering" (at the time). Now I obviously know a lot better. The fact is that using countersteering as a technqiue is just not intuitive.




I was talking about my experiences some 20 years ago, as a newbie, before I had an opportunity to ride a lot more. I now believe that my riding is better than average because of the work (practical and theory) I have put into understanding the hows and why's of riding technique.

I also dont appreciate your aggressive comments, when I am trying to put in a word of explanation to help newbies.

If you could ride a pushbike, you could ride a motorbike! It's that fucking simple! The principals are the same, gyroscope be fucked.

Whatever you told yourself you had to learn, was WRONG!

You'll see me get aggressive in my responses one day. Sit back and laugh when you do, it's quite the spectacle.

R-Soul, you have been here for a while now, surely you know who is truely being a troll, being smart or just trying to get you to say it out aloud.
This is KB and despite what many here think the majority of people who do post regularly are in fact interested in making sure that those who come along here and ask questions and for real advice,l get it!
None of the more recent posters would ever consider giving you a bum steer????

LOL pun intended.
But they will stir you up and laugh at your peeved response, that's part of the fun.

So, Give advice based on your own experiences and opinions, but do be prepared to take a bit of flak occasionally when someone else decides to stir you up a little
over what you may have said.

Shut up man, I'm having fun here!

[caseye]

LOL, wiping a tear from his eye, sorry can't give you anymore bling today, but had to say it.
IT!
Na, meant had to say, to R-Soul, See! told ya.
sorry Drew.
Nothing worse than fun police.

[nodrog:Me]

I think its too late to avoid it.

[SuperMac]

Could you look as 'cool' on your bike as this?

http://www.photoreflect.com/store/Or...000&po=0&pc=28

[R-Soul]

If you could ride a pushbike, you could ride a motorbike! It's that fucking simple! The principals are the same, gyroscope be fucked.

You are right, but you are also wrong.

The principles ARE the same in that the same forces are present, BUT the relative proportions of those forces change dramatically. It is quite simple to steer a bicycle with body weight alone, since the relative weight of the bike is low (compared to your own weight), and the gyroscopic forces from the wheels are minimal because the wheel weights are small, and the speed that they are rotating are low.

It is impossible to steer a motorbike effectively with body weight. Saying "gyroscopic forces be fucked " is like the captain of the Titanic saying "full speed ahead and fuck the icebergs".

If you have grown up stuffing around on a motorbike, say cause you had one as a teen, you probably get used to the increased weight and gyroscopic forces. You probably subconsciously learn to use countersteering without realising that it is actually what you are doing. However, this will develop over a longer time than say, getting on the bike, and being told the principles of countersteering, and having instant control of the bike.

This learning-by-experience could also involve a few off's before the subconscious control kicked in.

If every learner got a 5 minute course on countersteering, and then first rode with concious control of the bike, by applying counters teering technique properly (eg pushing forward instead of downward - some still say that is how it is done) it would potentially save many riders lots of pain. But you already know this.

Many people do have the attitude that "if you can ride a pushbike you can ride a motorbike" - and that is why 45 percent of motorbike accidents are bikes by themselves going off on corners. There is a LOT more to it.

[R-Soul]

Could you look as 'cool' on your bike as this?

http://www.photoreflect.com/store/Or...000&po=0&pc=28

Right there is somebody with very little control over their own bike... but that probably had more to do with the fact that he was running out of ground clearance...

[jrandom]

It is impossible to steer a motorbike effectively with body weight.

And yet I can ride down a large-ish hill's worth of 35kph corners with both hands behind my head and my right foot making gentle love to the rear brake.

I've always known I was special, but I didn't know I was exempted-from-the-laws-of-physics special.

Fortunately, I find my ego capable of encompassing this revelation.

[BoristheBiter]

And yet I can ride down a large-ish hill's worth of 35kph corners with both hands behind my head and my right foot making gentle love to the rear brake.

I've always known I was special, but I didn't know I was exempted-from-the-laws-of-physics special.

Fortunately, I find my ego capable of encompassing this revelation.

You know the rules...pics or it never happened.

Also I can't say I counter steer my dirt bike much. (maybe that's why I crash lots)

[bogan]

It is impossible to steer a motorbike effectively with body weight.

You mean quickly, body weight will overcome the precession over time.

If you need to use countersteering (by this I mean big push countersteering, not the more common doing it without realising it sort) on the road, you've probably done something wrong. However, if you need to use it to avoid an accident, its probably a damn good thing to do instinctively.

[jrandom]

You know the rules...pics or it never happened.

I'll make that a project for the summer

[swbarnett]

And yet I can ride down a large-ish hill's worth of 35kph corners with both hands behind my head and my right foot making gentle love to the rear brake.

Try that with fixed bars (i.e. the front wheel can't turn). You won't go anywhere but straight.

When you turn with body weight you're still counter-steering. It's just that the force used to initiate it is not applied on the bars.