My first stuff up

[arcane12]

Found it!



Don't ask how long I spent looking.

[TheTengTheory]

Unlike a bicycle which I'm use to or my scooter (which coincidently I've never had an off as yet touch wood).

Lifting by the handlebars doesn't work. At all....You just look silly. I found out real quick holding the front and back seems to work for me. Mind you it's only a hornet 250 so not exactly heavy. Can't imagine a 600cc

[arcane12]

My 650 is only 10kg heavier than that hornet. It's actually lighter than the OP's bike. The big boys version of my bike is about twice the weight though!! The middle child version is 200kg dry (depending on version) - not bad.

[FJRider]

... Can't imagine a 600cc

Then don't imagine a 1200 then ....

[MystikEagle]

Just booked into the course at the Uni on the 15th, sounds like it will be good for learning town/city riding skills. I may or may not learn anything new but it should at least help make my new skills more natural. For $30 I'm not going to loose anything anyway...

Arcane12, you should come along too!

[ckai]

Just booked into the course at the Uni on the 15th, sounds like it will be good for learning town/city riding skills. I may or may not learn anything new but it should at least help make my new skills more natural. For $30 I'm not going to loose anything anyway...

Arcane12, you should come along too!

Well maybe with you doing this course, certain people will feel it's more appropriate for your "abilities" and thank heavens it's not on a track - although it's in a carpark without random lawn.



Looking at booking Mummy dearest in for that as well. Just depends on how wired she is from coming back from Europe the week before. The old man found it good. Should really book her in anyway.

[tbs]

It took me along time to realise the back break on a motorbike isn't the most effective to use (especially as the main brake) unlike push bikes where if you use the front brake as the main brake you're over the handle bars!

Uh Brooke? This is exactly incorrect. You get 80% of your stopping power from your front brake on a push-bike. Even on loose dirt I use my front brake to slow down and my back brake to help control the bike, usually to slide it around to change direction.

It is exactly the same principle as on a motorbike, only it's easier on a push bike as the back of the bike isn't as prone to trying to pivot around the front wheel and overtake you if it loses traction. This is because the bike doesn't have all that mass that a motorbike does.

The key is to 'feather' or 'modulate' the brake and it is exactly the same on a bike or a motorbike. If you pull a big fist-full you are going down. On a motorbike you will wash out the front. On a push bike you might catapult yourself over the front.

I recommend for anyone learning to ride a motorbike to get out their pushbike and practice using the front brake. I can very easily get up to considerable speed and then ease on the front brake until the back lifts off the ground and cruise along in a rolling stoppie. This can be done on a motorbike too, but it is a damn site easier to learn and so much less dangerous on a push-bike.

Go practice.

[GrayWolf]

Just booked into the course at the Uni on the 15th, sounds like it will be good for learning town/city riding skills. I may or may not learn anything new but it should at least help make my new skills more natural. For $30 I'm not going to loose anything anyway...

Arcane12, you should come along too!

Hi ME,
look a lot of us old Bastards may come across as negative, we really arent being that. I think the Uni course is an excellent idea. What many of the older riders here dont like about track days IS the very fact the environment is not a realistic one.
If you google the UK training schemes, many of which are run/helped by Police motorcyclists, they dont use any of the many race tracks to teach on. (There is a difference? between the UK/NZ police. UK Motorcyclist Police are Traffic Division, T.D. are trained specialist 'high speed' drivers/riders. The average Patrol cop is not trained to this level, ergo not allowed to do high speed pursuit stuff. Police' Interceptors' on Sky, good example). What I and others do not like about track days is they do not teach roadcraft. They cant, they are not on the road. This is the skills, knowledge, understanding and defence methods of actual ROAD RIDING, this for UK Police is paralleled with machine handling skills. The skills you learn on the track may well enable you to 'avoid' a spill.... roadcraft should give you the skills to avoid being there in the first place... ergo, which is preferable?
This is a debate with no end. young, dumb and she'll be right, or old, crotchety and easily bruised? The two sides just never seem to meet.
I'd suggest strongly a copy of 'Motorcycle Roadcraft', .... one of the things I despair seeing riders here is the lack of use of the 'Life Saver'; It's called that for a VERY good reason... go read the book and you'll see why.

[arcane12]

Just booked into the course at the Uni on the 15th, sounds like it will be good for learning town/city riding skills. I may or may not learn anything new but it should at least help make my new skills more natural. For $30 I'm not going to loose anything anyway...

Arcane12, you should come along too!

Done. Booked!

Well you'd lose $30?

[Brooke]

Uh Brooke? This is exactly incorrect. You get 80% of your stopping power from your front brake on a push-bike. Even on loose dirt I use my front brake to slow down and my back brake to help control the bike, usually to slide it around to change direction.

It is exactly the same principle as on a motorbike, only it's easier on a push bike as the back of the bike isn't as prone to trying to pivot around the front wheel and overtake you if it loses traction. This is because the bike doesn't have all that mass that a motorbike does.

The key is to 'feather' or 'modulate' the brake and it is exactly the same on a bike or a motorbike. If you pull a big fist-full you are going down. On a motorbike you will wash out the front. On a push bike you might catapult yourself over the front.

I recommend for anyone learning to ride a motorbike to get out their pushbike and practice using the front brake. I can very easily get up to considerable speed and then ease on the front brake until the back lifts off the ground and cruise along in a rolling stoppie. This can be done on a motorbike too, but it is a damn site easier to learn and so much less dangerous on a push-bike.

Go practice.

Hey tbs, maybe that's why I came off and broke my ankle is 3 places in the redwoods going downhill and around a corner...

[chasio]

Hey tbs, maybe that's why I came off and broke my ankle is 3 places in the redwoods going downhill and around a corner...

I think you are suggesting that using the front brake caused your accident..? Is it possible that there were other equally important factors e.g. where was your weight (as far back as possible?) what was the surface doing, etc. This isn't kiwicyclist.co.nz so I don't want to go too far OT but I agree with tbs about the front brake and also acknowledge that in certain circumtances its use can put the finishing touches to an accident that is waiting to happen.

As with any accident, yours on the deadly treadlie or the OP's on the drive will no doubt have had lots of contributing factors. I'd suggest that the key in all cases is to work out what they all are and take appropriate steps to mitigate them without compromising other areas unacceptably. There are always trade-offs and Drew's suggestion that there is no one right way that can be applied in all circumstances certainly rings true.

[tbs]

Hey tbs, maybe that's why I came off and broke my ankle is 3 places in the redwoods going downhill and around a corner...

Yeah, could have been... Ouch. My wife took a lot of convincing to use the front brake. She was certain if she touched the front brake she would get launched into the air. That and standing up. It seems a lot of new mtb riders can't make themselves stand up on the pedals when hitting bumps. She knows to do these things correctly now, but still has problems target locking on trees.

My mother in law asked to have a ride on my wife's mtb and didn't realize how strong the disk brakes were. She broke both wrists.

[Subike]

Hi ME,
look a lot of us old Bastards may come across as negative, we really arent being that. I think the Uni course is an excellent idea. What many of the older riders here dont like about track days IS the very fact the environment is not a realistic one.
If you google the UK training schemes, many of which are run/helped by Police motorcyclists, they dont use any of the many race tracks to teach on. (There is a difference? between the UK/NZ police. UK Motorcyclist Police are Traffic Division, T.D. are trained specialist 'high speed' drivers/riders. The average Patrol cop is not trained to this level, ergo not allowed to do high speed pursuit stuff. Police' Interceptors' on Sky, good example). What I and others do not like about track days is they do not teach roadcraft. They cant, they are not on the road. This is the skills, knowledge, understanding and defence methods of actual ROAD RIDING, this for UK Police is paralleled with machine handling skills. The skills you learn on the track may well enable you to 'avoid' a spill.... roadcraft should give you the skills to avoid being there in the first place... ergo, which is preferable?
This is a debate with no end. young, dumb and she'll be right, or old, crotchety and easily bruised? The two sides just never seem to meet.
I'd suggest strongly a copy of 'Motorcycle Roadcraft', .... one of the things I despair seeing riders here is the lack of use of the 'Life Saver'; It's called that for a VERY good reason... go read the book and you'll see why.

Probabley the most relevant post in this entire thread. When I was a learner, we did not have to wear helmets, shingle roads were very common, and my dad use to clip my ear when I did something wrong on the bike. Yup, clip my ear, he would ride up behind me and "owch!"
Learning the environment was crucial to survival, in the years that followed when riding with a different bunch of people different road skills were learnt. needles to say Im a heap lot slower on the road now then I was before. I have never been on a track on a bike, I cannot see the point of it other than to race. For me I would learn very little new, not saying I know everything either. I dont. Road riding takes %100 concentration , no time for listen to music, cant hear the bike. No time for chatting on a blue tooth, need to watch the road ahead, a conversation would reduce my focus on the road. have I a suggestion that could help? maybe, ride in all conditions, ride in such a way you can stop within the distance you can "see" ahead of you, ride with a clear mind, never when you are angry, depressed or stressed out.
Stay alive peoples and enjoy riding, don't over anilize every little thing, and leave you ego at home in a shoe box under the bed.
have I ridden fast ? yes, am I a perfect rider, fuck no. Have I made fuck ups on the road, hell yes. But im 55 now, been riding since I was 12, and will still be riding for many more years to come. Rain Hail, fog, Sunshine, night or day, experiance gained on the road comes from riding, not talking about it.

[Banditbandit]

Probabley the most relevant post in this entire thread. When I was a learner, we did not have to wear helmets,
....

Stay alive peoples and enjoy riding, don't over anilize every little thing, and leave you ego at home in a shoe box under the bed.
have I ridden fast ? yes, am I a perfect rider, fuck no. Have I made fuck ups on the road, hell yes. But im 55 now, been riding since I was 12, and will still be riding for many more years to come. Rain Hail, fog, Sunshine, night or day, experiance gained on the road comes from riding, not talking about it.

Absolutely - I've been riding bikes since before helemts were compulsory - and I made a stuff up today - very similar to the one MystikEagle describes at the start of the thread - in a moment of inattention (after running on the open road) I turned into a driveway too fast ... lucky it was on tarmac so I didn't drop it this morning ... But I'm still here and still ride most days ..

[Drew]

Do you three old cunts accept though, that BIKE CONTROL IS AS IMPORTANT AS SITUATIONAL AWARENESS? Hmmmmm?

Change the fucking record.

Ohh, a car is where it should not be. I have seen it with lots of time to react, if only I knew how my bike reacts to different inputs.

Two sides to the argument. Listen to the other, before you repeat your side a hundredth cunting time!


FUCK. I really felt there would be more swearing, but after a quick read through I think that last one was missing.