The value of money has dropped by two thirds in 30 years

[Ocean1]

I wonder who does the valuation.

The guy buying the stuff/service decides. Nothing else makes any sort of sense at all.

There wasn't a need to comment on the income,

No. That would have led to people doing some arithmetic and coming to the conclusion that the cost of most stuff hasn’t changed anywhere near as much as a good conspiracy rant demands.

[mashman]

The guy buying the stuff/service decides. Nothing else makes any sort of sense at all.

No. That would have led to people doing some arithmetic and coming to the conclusion that the cost of most stuff hasn’t changed anywhere near as much as a good conspiracy rant demands.

So no problems with monopoly's and rent seekers then? Not using money at all makes perfect sense

... I dunno about that. There have been reports around lately highlighting that the essentials have been getting more expensive compared to back in the day. And what figures would you use for your rithmetic? Average income v cost of essentials?

[Ocean1]

So no problems with monopoly's and rent seekers then?

Dunno what a rent seeker is. Monopolies try to isolate the value of their product from the price they're charging, exactly the same behaviour I dislike about socialists and cargo cultists. Fuck the lot of 'em wiv a big pointy stick.

... I dunno about that. There have been reports around lately highlighting that the essentials have been getting more expensive compared to back in the day. And what figures would you use for your rithmetic? Average income v cost of essentials?

I only need to look at my parents standard of living and their contemporary's compared to their income to work it out. I did look at the numbers, once, but what you call an essential might vary. So do the homework, eh? Just make sure you're comparing apples with apples, house size and quality now equal to that available then, etc, etc.

[Brian d marge]

Just make sure you're comparing apples with apples, house size and quality now equal to that available then, etc, etc.

alrighty then , this could be useful , lets compare 1959 with 1999 ,

Ill help look things up , but I would be genuinely interested

Stephen

[Ocean1]

alrighty then , this could be useful , lets compare 1959 with 1999 ,

Ill help look things up , but I would be genuinely interested

Stephen

Think the last 30 years is the period in question.

[mashman]

Dunno what a rent seeker is. Monopolies try to isolate the value of their product from the price they're charging, exactly the same behaviour I dislike about socialists and cargo cultists. Fuck the lot of 'em wiv a big pointy stick.

I only need to look at my parents standard of living and their contemporary's compared to their income to work it out. I did look at the numbers, once, but what you call an essential might vary. So do the homework, eh? Just make sure you're comparing apples with apples, house size and quality now equal to that available then, etc, etc.

Rent-Seeking... isn't that how a business runs? They charge what they like based on the perceived market value to cover the costs and x% of margin?

The standard of living and the cost of living are 2 different things. So comparing standard of living in regards to value for money isn't comparing apples with apples.

[husaberg]

Think the last 30 years is the period in question.

Why not compare land prices? apple vs apple same piece of land and all that?

[Ocean1]

Rent-Seeking... isn't that how a business runs? They charge what they like based on the perceived market value to cover the costs and x% of margin?

No, by and large they don't.

Oh, there's quite a few that try to manipulate markets to their advantage, mostly by attempting to restrict access. If they're successful they're what I call a monopoly, there's no access to a free, value-driven market.

But as I've said before the vast majority of NZ business are SME's, fewer than a dozen workers. I know of a couple who use semi-dodgy standards compliance claims in an attempt to limit customers access to fair markets, but it's tolerably rare in NZ, more a feature of corrupt eastern European government contract arrangements.

Although I note in passing that the commerce commission has just agreed that Hire Pool can buy out Projects. If that's not creating a monopoly I don't know what is.

The standard of living and the cost of living are 2 different things. So comparing standard of living in regards to value for money isn't comparing apples with apples.

Semantics. Stop shooting your mouth off for a bit and find some reliable numbers to hang off this:

Average income v cost of essentials?

1982 and 2012.

[Ocean1]

Why not compare land prices? apple vs apple same piece of land and all that?

Because that's not all that's required to measure the essentials of life.

I'd be surprised if nobody's done such a comparison, but it's easy to cherry pick data, so if you're going to trust the results you need to write up your own honest shot at a "basic grocery list" and all the other budget items and then try to find enough historic prices to get a reasonable result.

Edit: I guess council imposed land development costs qualify as what mate mashie calls rent seeking too, eh? Certainly a huge increase in valueless compliance costs over the last few decades...

[Brian d marge]

Think the last 30 years is the period in question.

August the 15th 1971 to be exact

Stephen

[Ocean1]

August the 15th 1971 to be exact

Stephen

Nothing to do with your "world ended on this day" story Stephen, pay attention:

"A three-fold increase in prices has seen the spending power of money fall by two-thirds over the past 30 years, meaning a pound today can only buy as much as 33p could in 1982."

[Brian d marge]

Rent-Seeking...

The standard of living and the cost of living are 2 different things. So comparing standard of living in regards to value for money isn't comparing apples with apples.

no but there is a basic living standard of which telephones , TV and Ipads aren’t included

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

Nothing to do with your "world ended on this day" story Stephen, pay attention:

EVERYTHING to do with the world changed on this day

you are just unaware

Stephen

You know Im right , it just doesnt ft with your comfort zone ...

[Brian d marge]

No, by and large they don't.

Oh, there's quite a few that try to manipulate markets to their advantage, mostly by attempting to restrict access. If they're successful they're what I call a monopoly, there's no access to a free, value-driven market.

But as I've said before the vast majority of NZ business are SME's, fewer than a dozen workers. I know of a couple who use semi-dodgy standards compliance claims in an attempt to limit customers access to fair markets, but it's tolerably rare in NZ, more a feature of corrupt eastern European government contract arrangements.

Although I note in passing that the commerce commission has just agreed that Hire Pool can buy out Projects. If that's not creating a monopoly I don't know what is.



Semantics. Stop shooting your mouth off for a bit and find some reliable numbers to hang off this:


1982 and 2012.

you seriously do not know what you are talking about. spend a few min on google , look up public choice ( beautiful mind movie , nashes game theory )
the see if you can make the link between that and waiting times in the hospital


Stephen

[husaberg]

Because that's not all that's required to measure the essentials of life.

I'd be surprised if nobody's done such a comparison, but it's easy to cherry pick data, so if you're going to trust the results you need to write up your own honest shot at a "basic grocery list" and all the other budget items and then try to find enough historic prices to get a reasonable result.

Edit: I guess council imposed land development costs qualify as what mate mashie calls rent seeking too, eh? Certainly a huge increase in valueless compliance costs over the last few decades...

Some where to live is an essential of life isn't it i choose it because it is impossible to cherry pick.It is true like for like comparison, barring of course changes in transport routes and technology bridges etc........It is like for like. Using the dwelling is problematic fue to improved features etc building standards.
Food is too problematic as the changes in transport technology fertiliser economies of scale etc.

One things i see as for certain is both my parents still work and they are past the retirement age, most people my age have little savings and huge mortgages My parents didn't. Two incomes were not required to provide for a family and a new car every few years out of savings. Yes I realise people today have a want it right now philosophy. But i don't think it is the complete story.