The role of parents in financial education

[mashman]

Free fuel would become available in a resourced based economy..
New technologies would not be suppressed by big corporations looking after their profits.
Have scientists working on sustainability instead of better ways of killing people...
Fuel could be free..

Very true. What about those guys who can't get their low energy devices off the ground? Reckon they might move to NZ? Wonder how many other people would see the advantages of the RBE society and bring not only money, but expertise in just about every field of practical endeavor to NZ? We could up the IQ of the run of the mill NZer by a 1000%.

[jonbuoy]

Wotcha gonna do with your gold and oil? And what is anyone else going to do with gold or oil?

Meanwhile, I'll be getting free fuel, will take what's on offer at the supermarket, will do what the community requires of me, will have free knives professionally sharpened, and will be working less hours than you. bon chance mon ami.

A lot of people like shiny things - they have always and they will always like gold and gems.

Free fuel? Awesome - I´m in - bring back the 7litre big blocks - I can fly my private Airbus all over the world to my fleet of megayachts dotted in my favorite places - I can do all this right? There is no restriction on what I can and can´t do everythings free - I can take what I want? If I feel like a curry from my favorite takeway I can get my jet to fly over and pick one up for dinner. A bit like this guy does now - unless your planning to take it off him/me? Not sure how long this oils going to last......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...cert-hall.html

[328FTW]

Free fuel would become available in a resourced based economy..
New technologies would not be suppressed by big corporations looking after their profits.
Have scientists working on sustainability instead of better ways of killing people...
Fuel could be free..

It's not as simple as that, our development isn't necessarily hindered by money issues but technological ones. One good example (at least IMO) is the space race. Say overnight we could freeze and reanimate people, in a process compact enough to fit on a space vehicle. We send these people to go colonize some planets, just a few that from measurements appear they could sustain life. We send them today, right now. So they are now on a journey of thousand of years, so give things a couple thousand years on earth. Our technology allows near light speeds and we cut that time down to just a few hundred years. So you beat the ones you sent first by thousands of years.

Only this concept isn't that weird for any field. You could start building some huge project only to find it outdated by the time it's commissioned by an easier to build, cheaper and more efficient system. The money may be the throttler for the development but it's to a point applying a real world value to the risk vs reward factor and perhaps rewards better implemented ideas.


Of course there is definitely a more optimal way than what we currently do but the idea of free fuel and all that I wouldn't exactly say is going to come forth readily because of a system change. You may find in the idea of "the greater good" more gets diverted to doing massive projects such as industrializing currently 3rd world nations. I mean huge nations that are currently too poor to afford fuel for the masses are now in on a new system where their work is valued equally to our own. So they can hook up to the power grid, throw up a house, start developing as per what we consider normal. It'd be a large demand from a market that never used to exist.


I'd almost like to meet those that sternly believed communism was infallible and put them in a thread with people who know it's not and see if it looks anything like this one

[mashman]

A lot of people like shiny things - they have always and they will always like gold and gems.

Free fuel? Awesome - I´m in - bring back the 7litre big blocks - I can fly my private Airbus all over the world to my fleet of megayachts dotted in my favorite places - I can do all this right? There is no restriction on what I can and can´t do everythings free - I can take what I want? If I feel like a curry from my favorite takeway I can get my jet to fly over and pick one up for dinner. A bit like this guy does now - unless your planning to take it off him/me? Not sure how long this oils going to last......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...cert-hall.html

No problem at all. I just hope he isn't too devastated when fuel runs out. Perhaps he might want to look into hot air balloons just in case.

[Genestho]

I understand where you are coming from though . Being financially aware does not stop the behaviours you are talking about. Billionnaires go broke too ya know. The one thing people seem to be ignoring is that at the time of taking out HP those people can afford it. Otherwise that'd be classed as irresponsible lending wouldn't it?
It's not hard to know how much you can afford to pay at any given point in time. You have X coming in each week, you can afford to spend Y. The problems occur when circumstances change i.e. interest rates rise, cost of living rises, an unforeseen expense appears and they borrow borrow borrow with every intention of being able to pay it back. Plenty of people do pay it back, plenty of people hit the skids and end up out of their depth through no real fault of their own, coz circumstance screws their once comfortable position.
It's all fine and well telling kids to live beyond their means and I'd venture that the majority manage just fine... unless you have figures to highlight otherwise? So it doesn't highlight a lack of education in regards to spending etc... it highlights a problem that life changes and catches people out financially sometimes.
Most of the bankruptcies in the US are due to having to pay medical bills, not due to people overspending. Read up on it, because it isn't people living beyond their means.

That news article of the study you quote, took a sample of 2314 participants, out of 1.09 million bankruptcies managed to co-relate then state that 67% of ALL bankrupts in a population of 305 million at the time collectively had a consumer debt - the stuff people consume, of 2.5 trillion were due to medical bills? Always look deeper than a news article.

The funding source of the study is a not for profit company involved in the healthcare sector, that owns 8.8 billion in assets by the way.

If they are going to start catering for contingency, then I think we'll start seeing less people buying stuff. Even though I get Genestho's "lag" argument, it's not just the item being bought that will be saved for. It's everything that they don't buy during that save time that feels the affect. On the face of it it looks like a great policy, in reality it's overkill to teach it at school. It's basic Maths. Some people may not grasp Maths. How do you teach them?

Basic Maths, no. Apart from using a calculator to divide, add and multiply It's not that simple.

It's also teaching your kids to be aware of what they're signing, terminology, policy wording, fine print, what's going on in the trade sectors we deal in. "If it sounds to good to be true - then it probably is" To be aware of local AND world economics, what are the markets doing, where's the dollar at.

Can you still do something if the dollar fluctuates, if rates change, life changes, what's happening this week with the reserve bank and housing markets and keeping on top of all that, questioning everything and further knowing you can haggle your banks or anyone these days over anything and you should and budgeting.

No, you don't get what I'm saying - forget about the so called relative lag, you seem to be focussed on a "save only" scenario, there is no VS!!!
While I was saving in the early/hard days - the rule of thumb -10% of my earnings, I was still travelling, going out, buying stuff as well as paying bills! How does that happen in your save only scenario??
Savings can also turn into investments!!

Which brings me to human nature, you're a good indicator of it. I get that you're passionate and believe in this theory but if someone picks holes in your argument or disagrees, you're patronising or you talk about sniper rifles, har har.

Here you are on KB "canvasing" normal people, you think you're not going to get frustrated and angry if ever you try preaching in the real world to a majority of people that will pick holes and are simply not in agreement?
Anyway, I'm out. Got stuff to do. Goodluck

[mashman]

That news article of the study you quote, took a sample of 2314 participants, out of 1.09 million bankruptcies managed to co-relate then state that 67% of ALL bankrupts in a population of 305 million at the time collectively had a consumer debt - the stuff people consume, of 2.5 trillion were due to medical bills? Always look deeper than a news article.

The funding source of the study is a not for profit company involved in the healthcare sector, that owns 8.8 billion in assets by the way.

So it just isn't true then? I'm more than aware and I am aware of the use of statistics. People losing their jobs where the could once afford the medical bill repayments is likely in there i.e. the credit card bit. I wasn't giving a critique of the document for the sole purpose that it speaks for itself. Go ahead and half that number if it makes you feel any better.

Maybe this is closer to the mark for you. A grand conspiracy could be that the stats in the other article were bang on and led to the financial crisis as more people defaulted on home loans. but that would just be silly, wouldn't it?

Basic Maths, no. Apart from using a calculator to divide, add and multiply It's not that simple.

It's also teaching your kids to be aware of what they're signing, terminology, policy wording, fine print, what's going on in the trade sectors we deal in. "If it sounds to good to be true - then it probably is" To be aware of local AND world economics, what are the markets doing, where's the dollar at.

Can you still do something if the dollar fluctuates, if rates change, life changes, what's happening this week with the reserve bank and housing markets and keeping on top of all that, questioning everything and further knowing you can haggle your banks or anyone these days over anything and you should and budgeting.

No, you don't get what I'm saying - forget about the so called relative lag, you seem to be focussed on a "save only" scenario, there is no VS!!!
While I was saving in the early/hard days - the rule of thumb -10% of my earnings, I was still travelling, going out, buying stuff as well as paying bills! How does that happen in your save only scenario??
Savings can also turn into investments!!

Which brings me to human nature, you're a good indicator of it. I get that you're passionate and believe in this theory but if someone picks holes in your argument or disagrees, you're patronising or you talk about sniper rifles, har har.

Here you are on KB "canvasing" normal people, you think you're not going to get frustrated and angry if ever you try preaching in the real world to a majority of people that will pick holes and are simply not in agreement?
Anyway, I'm out. Got stuff to do. Goodluck

Basic Maths no? So turning your kids into financial whizz kids so that they can all grow up to be wall street bankers? (sarcasm just in case you missed it). You expect kids to take all of that in and have it lead their lives? What about all of these financial literates who got hammered with Credit Default Swaps (amongst other products)? They seem innocuous until they bite, exactly the same as every other financial product. Small print doesn't help etc... if you are confident that you can keep ahead financially. It's really that simple. By all means do the research, but don't expect that what you know is going to "save" you . If they don't have basic Maths, then they aren't going to be able to use a calculator, let alone work out compund interest and employ some form of actuarial calculation to balance the risks of market fluctuations in relation to their budget. The Maths is kind of important.

And what you're ignoring is the purchasing power of kids. Do they really have that much money to travel, go out, buy stuff, pay rent, buy food, pay the electric bills etc... and still save 10%? I'm not just looking at it from a saving perspective, hard as that may be for you to grasp (insert emoticon to denote a friendly demeanour whilst typing something that could be constreud as being patronising).

heh... what's wrong with fighting fire with fire? It serves a purpose. Am I frustrated? Ya see you, well not just you, do an awful lot of telling me how I must have been feeling at the time I wrote a post. If the tone of my post changes, that is generally by design. I agree there are a couple that get away from me, passionate about the subject etc... but 99% of the time, they're written with a clear head and toned for a purpose. Am I preaching? Ya see you, well not just you, do an awful lot of telling me how I must have been feeling at...... oh we've done that one. Why do you think I'm doing this on KB and not out in the real world? Call it an exploratory if you like and it has made a difference, thank you KB.
Have a lovely day (no sarcasm there, just a genuinly meant pleasantry).

[lakedaemonian]

Yeah .. right there .. you are right .. I'm not an economist I'm just a simple man trying to get by in this fucked up world...




Yeah - I agree .. and even worse .... apparently he refused to allow his daughter to marry the man she wanted to marry because he was "beneath her station" ... such an armchair revolutionary ..

I'm not a marxist .. I like his analysis - but not his solution ...

We're all just little squirrels trying to earn a nut for our families.....while the folks with the real influence and control shape the world to their advantage.

On the topic of parents role in financial education...my wife and I reckon it's almost entirely on us and practically no one else.

We're luck to have a school with some good teachers who don't overstep their responsibilities and push any particular agenda...other than agreeing with a need for individual/personal responsibility and accountability.

Real life skills are important.

Math/financial skills

Communication skills

Interpersonal skills.

I'd rather my kids get B's and C's in most traditional school curriculum as long as they get "A's" in life skills like Influencing and Negotiation.

We probably all know some incredibly smart polymaths, who can't even hold jobs as janitors because they completely lack interpersonal skills.

[avgas]

"This guy" is so clearly on the autistic spectrum it is not funny - an excellent portrayal of such a person ...
And I'll bet he earns way way more money than you or I ..

Considering 90% of the world share autistic traits I am more worried about the people who aren't autistic than the ones who are.
But i thought the argument was we were getting rid of money. Which means I have more time dedicated to testing my theories and building stuff that will only help myself.
Sure I will have to deal with those damn dirty common folk every now and then - horrible things those humans.

[avgas]

Have scientists working on sustainability instead of better ways of killing people....

Its governments that hold this up, not corporations.
Google Lanzatech if you don't believe me (there have been 100's of other kiwis who faced the same problem). NZ is not a clean green country - that is a marketing ploy.

[Ocean1]

NZ is not a clean green country - that is a marketing ploy.

Yes, there's marketing associated with the green image. But NZ is actually clean and green compared to most.

[avgas]

Yes, there's marketing associated with the green image. But NZ is actually clean and green compared to most.

My shit stinks slightly less than most - doesn't make it peanut butter.

[Ocean1]

My shit stinks slightly less than most - doesn't make it peanut butter.

Meh. Interminable bleating about humanity's shock horror use of the planet ignores the fact that humans are a natural effect too.

Be nice if the fuckers stopped short of extinctifying complete species though, and at least we can no longer claim ignorance.

[Tarded]

Mashman I just don't know what world you live in.
In my world As I said I have piles of applications for finance from people who are living beyond their means.
Not just the simple fact they need to borrow money to buy a $2000-15000 item but beyond their ability to repaythe loan itself.
Heres a couple of examples pulled at random from the stack
Earning $500 a week and current committments of $450 a week. Loan repayments of $40 a week. No allowance for car running costs/insurance etc.
Earning Decent money but 3 finance defaults in the past 2 years. No attempt to repay the debts despite being aware of them and having the money to repay them.
This is not as you seem to be saying about change of circumstances for the worse. This is just plain and simple bad money management.
I see 100 people with bad money management for every 1 I see due to change in circumstances.

people are "trapped" in a cycle of borrowing. At the bottom end you have those getting their pay or dole payments and ripping down to repay the loan at the shark at 28% interest.
At the other end you have people who "need" to top up their morgage to go on holiday or get the new car etc.

While you are obviously right to a point what about those of limited means who drive guzzlers, smoke and booze up regularly? No trap there - choices with govt funded or free ways to quit. If you WANT to.
Rich and dumb is rich and dumb. Rich and an arsehole who burns all the steps pver the bodies really stinks. Lombard finance?
Lombard - Lots Of Money But A Real Dick.

Try getting a mortgage and saying you have no debts (cause you actually dont) and th ebank gets all funny. You must owe on a car, TV etc.......... piss off. No money = no toy. Interest does not interest me at all. On depreciating assets.

Gee financial responsibility and living in my means even if that means not having that which others do and I covet. Not fuckin hard.

Suck it up people.

[Tarded]

We're all just little squirrels trying to earn a nut for our families.....while the folks with the real influence and control shape the world to their advantage.

On the topic of parents role in financial education...my wife and I reckon it's almost entirely on us and practically no one else.

We're luck to have a school with some good teachers who don't overstep their responsibilities and push any particular agenda...other than agreeing with a need for individual/personal responsibility and accountability.

Real life skills are important.

Math/financial skills

Communication skills

Interpersonal skills.

I'd rather my kids get B's and C's in most traditional school curriculum as long as they get "A's" in life skills like Influencing and Negotiation.

We probably all know some incredibly smart polymaths, who can't even hold jobs as janitors because they completely lack interpersonal skills.

Halle fuckin lujah.
I bet there is a rule against such practical parenting. Bloody kids with a sense of the value of a dollar.
Pfft, you will ruin NZ.

I spose you teach them to cook, budget, use basic hand tools and grow veges too. And that they are obliged to consider other road users no doubt. Disgusting.

You ought to be ashamed. I saw it on a reality show.
So it must be true. A chick with plastic tits and fake tan said so.

We all need to aspire to be like celebrities.

[mashman]

Now we can create schools of financial excellence and end up with the excellent school system that the US has.... how do I go about getting govt funding to set up my own school?