A new brand of chinese "sports bikes"?

[Mushu]

Oh heaven forbid. Who cares where it is made. It has brakes, both front and rear. It has grip on the tyres - legal depth even.
Where was you bikes made? Japan? Really? All of them?

More importantly where is you Volvo?

Let people buy what they want. Stop being a combination of a boffin and a mother.

I'm pretty confident my R6 was built with pretty stringent quality control, I'm sure it was built in Japan.
The DR, who knows but they have a reputation, plenty of them have been around the world.
If I'd known the ninja was built in Taiwan or whatever I might not have bought it, not because of quality issues, I might have anticipated the time it took to get parts shipped in (the bike was off the road for 6 weeks because of a simple slow drop)

I wouldn't trust an unknown Chinese sport bike at over 250kmh like I trust the R6
And I wouldn't trust an unknown Chinese dirt bike when I'm on my own in the middle of nowhere.

I wouldn't own a Volvo, my opinion of European vehicles is that they tend to be inferior to the jap alternative. Even among jap vehicles I tend to buy Toyotas, preferably anything built before about '95 and at the top end of its respective model range

With the import laws NZ used to have, used Japanese vehicles are so cheap I wonder why anybody ever buys anything else. Although pretty much any European vehicle can be seen as a fashion statement so I understand why some people must have an Audi or a BMW.

Other people can take the risk on the Chinese bikes until there is a clear brand reputation. As I said, I'm happy they're out there and that people are buying them but I buy my vehicles based on their reputation so I can trust them.

[ducatilover]

Then you'll know of five famous Belgians (sorry old Euro joke)

Bloody Gauls!

I wouldn't own a Volvo, my opinion of European vehicles is that they tend to be inferior to the jap alternative. Even among jap vehicles I tend to buy Toyotas, preferably anything built before about '95 and at the top end of its respective model range

That's a little one eyed really, but it leaves me more good cars to buy eh? Of the 22 or 23 cars I have had, half have not been Japanese.
I've owned more, from more brands than many, and I can say very confidently that brand loyalty is for wombles, there have been more bad Toyotas than good, but their good cars are impressively sturdy (got two up our driveway right now actually).
There are many, many decent European cars, and many shit ones. And, may I add many are very cheap to run/service/fix, just like many Jap cars.
Find another car that'll do everything as nicely as my '95 850, for the same cost and I'd probably buy it.

Each to their own, but I work on and have owned enough of most major brands to know that brand loyalty and lumping things in to good/bad categories dependent on where they're made is just silly. But, it makes life easier for people, just like racism, and well, anti-anything-ists

[avgas]

Those CFmoto bikes look good. The main thing putting me off is the fact they're copies.

Now all they need to do is make a ~400cc triple that makes a shade under the 150kw/tonne LAMS limit, and utilises good ideas without copying other bikes directly....

Having worked with Chinese design/engineers. Chinese copies are as good as it gets - trust me, if it's not a copy......something is funky.

There is the odd needle in the Haystack in terms of Chinese original designs that works and looks good. But a majority I am thankful are copies of things that already worked.

Then again - I think the same about some Jap bikes. GB500 was a great little bike, and apart from the engine was as far from Japanese design as possible. Likewise the Katana and CB750. I mean think about - we could have all ended up riding different variations of a burgman scooter if Japan didn't pinch a few good ideas.

[avgas]

Find another car that'll do everything as nicely as my '95 850, for the same cost and I'd probably buy it.

Oh god man! Thats a horrid FWD one! Are you in some kind of religious sect or something? Did you inherit it from some grandfather?
That is not OVLOV that is masochistic masterbation.

[ducatilover]

Oh god man! Thats a horrid FWD one! Are you in some kind of religious sect or something? Did you inherit it from some grandfather?
That is not OVLOV that is masochistic masterbation.

it was free and has the correct number of cylinders
And it's just a tiny bit safer than some rusty pile of shit ae9x 12v 1.3 Corolla eh?

[avgas]

I'm pretty confident my R6 was built with pretty stringent quality control, I'm sure it was built in Japan.
The DR, who knows but they have a reputation, plenty of them have been around the world.
If I'd known the ninja was built in Taiwan or whatever I might not have bought it, not because of quality issues, I might have anticipated the time it took to get parts shipped in (the bike was off the road for 6 weeks because of a simple slow drop)

I wouldn't trust an unknown Chinese sport bike at over 250kmh like I trust the R6
And I wouldn't trust an unknown Chinese dirt bike when I'm on my own in the middle of nowhere.

I wouldn't own a Volvo, my opinion of European vehicles is that they tend to be inferior to the jap alternative. Even among jap vehicles I tend to buy Toyotas, preferably anything built before about '95 and at the top end of its respective model range

With the import laws NZ used to have, used Japanese vehicles are so cheap I wonder why anybody ever buys anything else. Although pretty much any European vehicle can be seen as a fashion statement so I understand why some people must have an Audi or a BMW.

Other people can take the risk on the Chinese bikes until there is a clear brand reputation. As I said, I'm happy they're out there and that people are buying them but I buy my vehicles based on their reputation so I can trust them.

- R6 is assembled in Japan (for now)..........but parts come from elsewhere.
- Yamaha QC is great, but no where near what it used to be. Ever looked at their logo? Well lets just say they don't use tuning forks in the factory unless you paying over $200K
- I am yet to see a non- bears and non-jap bike break 250. So you fears are safe. In saying that I have seen some get close enough to have fun. RG150's are a good example.

- "Wouldn't trust a aisan dirtbike in the middle of nowhere" was the statement that good smashed 20-30 years ago - Honda even named a bike after smashing said statement. The Dakar. Took BMW 10 years to catch up.
- Euros in NZ......about 70% are from Japan/Singapore and are assembled there

You buy your vehicles after they have built a reputation. Chicken and Egg. As mentioned earlier - stop being so mum about people wanting to risk a little. Imagine how hard it is for NZ manufacturers to try and sell globally. Would you buy a piece of gear from a hillbilly nation, smaller than a suburb with technology 10 years behind and no formal export quality control?
I have seen people use the kiwi term "No. 8" to mean - Half-arsed and half-done, or sub-spec.

We need to face our own ghosts before telling others what to do.

[avgas]

it was free and has the correct number of cylinders
And it's just a tiny bit safer than some rusty pile of shit ae9x 12v 1.3 Corolla eh?

AHA so the previous owner LEFT it for you.

Beggars can't be choosers.

You needed the 16V AE86 is what you need.

[Mushu]

Bloody Gauls!



That's a little one eyed really, but it leaves me more good cars to buy eh? Of the 22 or 23 cars I have had, half have not been Japanese.
I've owned more, from more brands than many, and I can say very confidently that brand loyalty is for wombles, there have been more bad Toyotas than good, but their good cars are impressively sturdy (got two up our driveway right now actually).
There are many, many decent European cars, and many shit ones. And, may I add many are very cheap to run/service/fix, just like many Jap cars.
Find another car that'll do everything as nicely as my '95 850, for the same cost and I'd probably buy it.

Each to their own, but I work on and have owned enough of most major brands to know that brand loyalty and lumping things in to good/bad categories dependent on where they're made is just silly. But, it makes life easier for people, just like racism, and well, anti-anything-ists

I know brand loyalty is bullshit each of the Toyotas I have owned have had their upsides and downsides and I have owned others like a primera or a WRX which I hated or my Gemini which I loved, I quite liked the Jeep cherokee my Dad used to own and most of Hondas sportier cars (S2000 is still the best car I ever drove), I found it interesting that when I worked at a Ford dealership in Sydney that almost everyone there ownedHoldens and that down the road at the Holden dealer everyone owned Fords, yet across the road was a Toyota dealer and there everyone owned Toyotas.

Infact the reason I bought an R6 rather than a CBR/GSXR/ZXR is because of Yamahas link with Toyota, (Yamaha did the induction and the heads of heaps of fast Toyota engines since the mid 80s). Its just experience, you go with what you know, I've had good luck with my Toyotas, and when I move back to Australia soon I will be buying a Hilux and a Tenere.

[Erelyes]

I know brand loyalty is bullshit

Exactly. And at the end of the day we buy what we think will make us happy.

Sometimes cars / bikes will be unreliable, expensive, frustrating, whatever - but still make us happy, so we'll still defend 'em to the death.

Other times we'll get unlucky, chalk things up to the car being 'a lemon' and learn to hate it. And associate that hate with anything else by the same name.

[ducatilover]

AHA so the previous owner LEFT it for you.

Beggars can't be choosers.

You needed the 16V AE86 is what you need.

Yup, previous owner was my brother who decided I needed the Volvo seeing as motorbicycles are silly and dangerous contraptions, and for some odd reason I've kept it and rather like it. Something due to it being inconspicuous like a Camry, but not shit like a Camry?
I think every one needs an AE86 at some stage, bit of fun to drive. I'd rather drive an AW11 (yes, have driven both, the AW11 likes to kill more, which is cool)

I know brand loyalty is bullshit each of the Toyotas I have owned have had their upsides and downsides and I have owned others like a primera or a WRX which I hated or my Gemini which I loved, I quite liked the Jeep cherokee my Dad used to own and most of Hondas sportier cars (S2000 is still the best car I ever drove), I found it interesting that when I worked at a Ford dealership in Sydney that almost everyone there ownedHoldens and that down the road at the Holden dealer everyone owned Fords, yet across the road was a Toyota dealer and there everyone owned Toyotas.

Infact the reason I bought an R6 rather than a CBR/GSXR/ZXR is because of Yamahas link with Toyota, (Yamaha did the induction and the heads of heaps of fast Toyota engines since the mid 80s). Its just experience, you go with what you know, I've had good luck with my Toyotas, and when I move back to Australia soon I will be buying a Hilux and a Tenere.

Dirty bloody loyalist
Interestingly, none of the Yamaha head Toyotas are the most reliable, the early bluetop 4AGE loved to do bottom ends due to holding oil in the heads, the 20V motors love to do rings and crack cranks amongst other things, the gen 1/2 3SGE motors loved doing bottom ends, headgaskets and so on. The G series motors were okay power wise compared to the competition, except when compared to Honda (I don't want to be a brand boy, but just saying)
I did however like the 3SGE in the Silleeeeeka I had, before it shat itself. It was a bloody nice motor. Can't say I feel the same about 4AGEs.
Agree on the S2000, awesome car and I wish there was now a market for good cars of that sort for those prices
After the 4afe, 7afe, 1uzfe, 3sfe and 5sfe stopped being used Toyotas famed reliability has taken a big hit. (Our heinous 4afe is now past 510km I think, original motor)

I like to try different things it has bit me in the bum though, that Honda Legend I once had for 4 hours...

[Mushu]

Yup, previous owner was my brother who decided I needed the Volvo seeing as motorbicycles are silly and dangerous contraptions, and for some odd reason I've kept it and rather like it. Something due to it being inconspicuous like a Camry, but not shit like a Camry?
I think every one needs an AE86 at some stage, bit of fun to drive. I'd rather drive an AW11 (yes, have driven both, the AW11 likes to kill more, which is cool)


Dirty bloody loyalist
Interestingly, none of the Yamaha head Toyotas are the most reliable, the early bluetop 4AGE loved to do bottom ends due to holding oil in the heads, the 20V motors love to do rings and crack cranks amongst other things, the gen 1/2 3SGE motors loved doing bottom ends, headgaskets and so on. The G series motors were okay power wise compared to the competition, except when compared to Honda (I don't want to be a brand boy, but just saying)
I did however like the 3SGE in the Silleeeeeka I had, before it shat itself. It was a bloody nice motor. Can't say I feel the same about 4AGEs.
Agree on the S2000, awesome car and I wish there was now a market for good cars of that sort for those prices
After the 4afe, 7afe, 1uzfe, 3sfe and 5sfe stopped being used Toyotas famed reliability has taken a big hit. (Our heinous 4afe is now past 510km I think, original motor)

I like to try different things it has bit me in the bum though, that Honda Legend I once had for 4 hours...

funny how you note the 4age and 3sge as unreliable, I've been thrashing every kind of 4age since I got my license and never had a single problem, my old flatmate drove a ae92 Corolla about 20k without a radiator with no damage done. And my cousin had a 20v AE101 that never saw an oil change in about 7 years and managed to do the last six months of that with a fucked water pump, good Service and she runs good as new (I currently own a AE101 myself and an AW11 with a 20v), and I only ever saw 1 3sge fail, due to an oil leak that was never topped up (ex girlfriends car, I got sick of maintaining it) and even that managed about 50k after dropping the big end bearing even the turbo 3sgte seems to take a beating, although they kill turbos if the anti lag is enabled(over the years I've owned at least 13 Toyotas all of them either corollas or Celicas, and one MR2 so I know both those engines very well)

[avgas]

Yup, previous owner was my brother who decided I needed the Volvo seeing as motorbicycles are silly and dangerous contraptions, and for some odd reason I've kept it and rather like it. Something due to it being inconspicuous like a Camry, but not shit like a Camry?
I think every one needs an AE86 at some stage, bit of fun to drive. I'd rather drive an AW11 (yes, have driven both, the AW11 likes to kill more, which is cool)

Personal preference. I will never buy anything that only has 2 seats and less than 400 kw. Don't see the point - bikes are cheaper and more fun.
Plus when you have family and friends.......4 seats makes sense. More space to store shit.

Almost got an AW11 once. But instead went with an 83' Sapporo and never regretted that decision - but regretted selling that Sapporo. One of my most favourite cars ever. Twin-Mikuni Carb used to scream as I wrecked tyres. Ol' Single Cam Mitsi's were way more fun than the DOHC ones.

As for bad 3SGE's. I never had one. All of mine did 350k before I on sold em. Same with 3SFE I had.

My Vauxhall was a great shape - but tech was POS. I had a stereo that was mono. Steering was like a hacked bedford and the suspension was where the chassis flexed. The Toyota SR coupe and Nissan SSS of the same vintage made is look like a lame duck.

Funny thing was at the time. China had really good car manufacturing. They were making reliable VW (Santana's) and Buicks. So it went downhill when people wanted cheap crap.

[Katman]

Exactly. And at the end of the day we buy what we think will make us happy.

Sometimes cars / bikes will be unreliable, expensive, frustrating, whatever - but still make us happy, so we'll still defend 'em to the death.

Other times we'll get unlucky, chalk things up to the car being 'a lemon' and learn to hate it. And associate that hate with anything else by the same name.

And many times we buy simply on price because a great number of New Zealanders equate 'cheap' with 'bargain'.

Once an item has to be repaired often enough it becomes neither cheap nor a bargain.

[The Reibz]

Once an item has to be repaired often enough it becomes neither cheap nor a bargain.

Thats part of the joys of ownership. Like rusty fords and holdens that constantly need repairing and spend most of their lives on bricks in driveways. Same could be said about alot of bikes that spend most of their time in sheds.

And to the guys that were bagging the 4AGE above calling them unreliable and shit, is that why they are one of the most popular turbo'd toyota engines? I had a mate with a 20v Black top that was running 170hp on Avgas in a FXGT rally car. Shit was intense. My brother has managed over 300hp on a 4AGZE with a twin screw supercharger. As far as Toyotas go I don't think I would look for another engine in that year bracket. Lucky im a ford man and prefer a unreliable, oil burning, valve bouncing, camchain rattling 4L E-Series XR6. 5 Speed manual though, does madddd skids.

[Katman]

Put it this way, if the Chinese started to build copies of the Boeing 787, powered by copies of Roll Royce engines, and sold them to airlines for half the price of the Boeing original, would you fly in one?