Occupy Kiwi Biker Movement

[bogan]

Poverty exists, but it's not that bad? Educational insituations have limited places, but it's not that bad? There aren't enough well paying job for everyone, but it's not that bad? The top 10% of the world has let's say 50% of the "wealth", but it's not that bad? Money is actually infinite yet we can't implement that which we know will help, but it's not that bad?

It's pretty fuckin bad in a lot of places, so no, money is bad because it is a limiter, not the enabler that gets touted and it damages and hinders the lives of billions on a daily basis. Thems is facts baby, not fictions... and I choose to see those facts because those people deserve the lifestyle that I have (and I'm not talking about stuff), but there isn't enough money from the infinite pot to allow them that "luxury", even though there are enough resources to accomplish it.

I'll go all Ocean and Oscar on you and start putting words into your mouth here... so what you should take from that is equity does not exist, therefore billions of people are marginalised and treated like dogs and not people to support the lifestyle of the 1%. Anything else just make you a (add ad hominem wankshot a la Ocean and Oscar here).

Exactly, you're seeing what you want to see, try looking at the good side of the same coin (so to speak), look on the bright side of life buddy

[unstuck]

Quite simply, no man is an island. We are all brought up at the expense of the wider community. From education to healthcare to water "purification" to waste management to, well, the list is endless.

The farmer who produced food relies on a huge number of industry's to provide food, water, machinery, internet, transport, administration etc... before the food gets to us. Before many of those who the farmer relies upon can do their jobs minerals have to be dug out of the ground, processed, fashioned, transported etc... but first they need to be fed. It's a simple cycle that every individual in this country relies upon, even those off grid. Why any person should be entitled to anything above any other is beyond me.

It's simply a moronic way of saying that you are better than someone else and that those who control the market have laid the foundations for you to excuse yourself on the basis that you should be valued more than anyone else, because you made more of a perceived effort. You're fuckwits of the highest order and such a view should be met with the blunt end of a hammer to the forehead on first communicating such fucked up ideology. You do more damage than good to people and the planet. That is an undeniable truth, now go hide-out behind your excuses like the chicken shit mutha fuckas that you are, there's good children.

OOOH......Someones got their period.

[mashman]

Money in and of itself has no power, until stupid humans get hold of it. Ban humans.

Yes it does. It has the power to stop things from being done. That is not humans not putting in the effort or being stupid, it's an economic fact that a finite pot of money is available to undertake a particular task.

OOOH......Someones got their period.

Nahhhh, just cutting through the bullshit that people hide behind, but using emotivity and the language of my home town as the method of conveying truth this time

[unstuck]

Yes it does. It has the power to stop things from being done. That is not humans not putting in the effort or being stupid, it's an economic fact that a finite pot of money is available to undertake a particular task.

How?

[mashman]

Exactly, you're seeing what you want to see, try looking at the good side of the same coin (so to speak), look on the bright side of life buddy

... I saw no negativity in that statement, only cold hard facts that need to be addressed.

[mashman]

How?

ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa... we can't put money into alternative energy, because it is required for updating the payroll system for schools, or for irrigation projects for food production, or for roading, or for healthcare etc... the resources, materials, man power, know how, the will are there, the only thing that isn't is the money.

[unstuck]

So theres a big pile of money sitting in a big room, how is that money bad? Not the people who are holding it there, the money itself?

[bogan]

... I saw no negativity in that statement, only cold hard facts that need to be addressed.

Cold hard facts eh? Shit you are just like Ed!

The point is, fact or not, it's the negative aspects you decide to focus on. Establishing a global resource economy which harnesses productivity from around the world for our common good is no small feat.

[unstuck]

The point is, fact or not, it's the negative aspects you decide to focus on. Establishing a global resource economy which harnesses productivity from around the world for our common good is no small feat.

This dude gets it.

[Big Dave]

>>Why any person should be entitled to anything above any other is beyond me. <<

I hope you don't have a dog. Another dog will eat it.

[mashman]

So theres a big pile of money sitting in a big room, how is that money bad? Not the people who are holding it there, the money itself?

Because if the money didn't exist in the first place, neither the money nor the people could be considered bad. Is it because the money exists that we see the behaviours.

Cold hard facts eh? Shit you are just like Ed!

The point is, fact or not, it's the negative aspects you decide to focus on. Establishing a global resource economy which harnesses productivity from around the world for our common good is no small feat.

No. I'm focussing on recognised issues. WTF! seriously? You're saying that we currently don't have a global resource based economy? Come on, apply at least a little thought to that statement.

>>Why any person should be entitled to anything above any other is beyond me. <<

I hope you don't have a dog. Another dog will eat it.

Or it will die trying.

[bogan]

No. I'm focussing on recognised issues. WTF! seriously? You're saying that we currently don't have a global resource based economy? Come on, apply at least a little thought to that statement.

"It's pretty fuckin bad in a lot of places, so no, money is bad because it is a limiter, not the enabler that gets touted and it damages and hinders the lives of billions on a daily basis. Thems is facts baby, not fictions..."

Those are not facts. For you to put the fault on money, you would have to demonstate it was the financial system that did those things, not other factors like human douchebaggery, resource scarcity, etc...

I'm saying that money created the one we have, and it is no small feat. It was to point out that if you focused on more positive stuff you might see just what money has given us, has enabled us to do

[mashman]

"It's pretty fuckin bad in a lot of places, so no, money is bad because it is a limiter, not the enabler that gets touted and it damages and hinders the lives of billions on a daily basis. Thems is facts baby, not fictions..."

Those are not facts. For you to put the fault on money, you would have to demonstate it was the financial system that did those things, not other factors like human douchebaggery, resource scarcity, etc...

I'm saying that money created the one we have, and it is no small feat. It was to point out that if you focused on more positive stuff you might see just what money has given us, has enabled us to do

The only way to truly do that is to remove the financial system and see. What product/good/service is free of financial constraint?

I'm not denying what the financial system has achieved, what I am saying is that without the financial system we would have achieved more as we would not have had financial constraints to limit research or hold back technology. The reason that we have smart bombs is because someone wanted to make a smart bomb. The only reason a smart bomb came in to being was because finance was used to turn that idea into a reality. If a lack of "investment" is held up as the reason for not doing anything, which it usually is, then money/the financial system has stopped that anything from being achieved irrespective of the benefits it will yield. It impedes true progress and to a large extent limits cooperation. Yes money has taken us a long way, but there has been a very real human cost too, and that cost needn't have been paid had we have put in place that which is consistently reported that we cannot afford.

[MisterD]

Why any person should be entitled to anything above any other is beyond me.

So you're saying that everyone's time and skill is equal? I should pay the same to someone to weed my garden, as I should to fix my car as I should to perform surgery on my knee?

Question about money: What does a car mechanic do, in a moneyless world, if he needs bread but none of the bakers need their car fixed?

[mashman]

So you're saying that everyone's time and skill is equal? I should pay the same to someone to weed my garden, as I should to fix my car as I should to perform surgery on my knee?

Question about money: What does a car mechanic do, in a moneyless world, if he needs bread but none of the bakers need their car fixed?

I'm saying that we shouldn't have to pay at all, as all of those jobs are requirements for society to tick. Start removing those jobs and see how far ya get. My face example being binmen. Remove the binmen, watch disease rise, see waiting lists extend, watch more people die, see more docrots and nurses become disease ridden etc... It's all required, so why put a price on which is more important. Similarly with clean air, clean water and clean land. Start fucking with those and nobody lives.

He goes to the shop and picks up a loaf of bread. A dead mechanic is of no use (Soylent Green), neither is a stockpile of stale bread.