Occupy Kiwi Biker Movement

[MisterD]

I know... hence the reason I say to use them properly and do the things that need to be done.

You're peddling a financial perpetual motion machine. It just won't work.

[ducatilover]

Why don't you all put your incredible collective intelligence together and build me a swing arm? And because it's a free market, I won't pay any of you. Or something.

Thanks, you can contact me via PM

[unstuck]

Because if the money didn't exist in the first place, neither the money nor the people could be considered bad. Is it because the money exists that we see the behaviours.

So before the monetary system was invented, everybody was living in perfect harmony. There were no tribal wars of greed, people didnt die of starvation, fuck......that must of been cool.

[mashman]

You of course have proof that such resource would make their way to them if money was not a thing? And that it wouldn't just be douchebaggery or nationalism or hoarding that would continue to prevent them getting there if money was not a thing...

I figured you as part of the so called 99% so assumed your idea were indicative of their own, in either case I've seen nothing good from any source to replace or surpass our current system. Shouting a concept is worthless since you have no basis to back up that statement; it's either shit now there is no money I can't buy anything, or, sweet, no money so I can buy everything! Or some other factor you've yet to explain... like the wizards suddenly imbuing everyone with a sense of altruism.

Regardless, removing the people from the driving force in favor of your dictator committee who decides for our common good that we don't need those things anymore, is still removing one of the driving forces all people have a say in.

Are they wizard researchers who can do two things at once? Or do you just have visions of all the top minds sitting around idly going, well if only I had money I could do something with my life. Surely you can see those people and equipment are occupied with existing projects?

Do you have proof to say otherwise? That douchebaggery or nationalism or hoarding already exists, the main difference being that those in poverty, hungry, wanting further education, wanting healthcare etc... would have it available to them. That's several plus's in my book.

And as I pointed out at the start of the thread, there is no indicative, just people with concerns that they decide to concern themselves with. In my case, I've gone for concerning myself with trying a solution that affects everything. Most of it will be for the better, the rest, well we'd have to wait and see ad deal with that. As I have said, I'm not looking for nirvana/utopia, just something better and that is achievable. NOTHING WILL CHANGE IN THE SHORT-TERM. We're already altruistic, we just need the environment to show it.

Not all people have a say at the moment. So no difference there.

What percentage of bankers, accountants, and financially related people would be capable of turning their hand to something else? Because there's an awful lot of people in those jobs that are qualified to be mathematicians, rocket scientists, biochemist etc... and as there weren't any jobs in those fields, they've thrown themselves into something different. So no need to remove anyone from any existing projects, unless of course the project is finding the best cup of tea or designing weapons of destruction or highly inefficient hydrogen engines to take into disaster zones etc...

You're peddling a financial perpetual motion machine. It just won't work.

In what way? and why won't it work?

[Scuba_Steve]

So before the monetary system was invented, everybody was living in perfect harmony. There were no tribal wars of greed, people didnt die of starvation, fuck......that must of been cool.

No but there was 1 less thing to beat da shit outta each other over/for

[mashman]

So before the monetary system was invented, everybody was living in perfect harmony. There were no tribal wars of greed, people didnt die of starvation, fuck......that must of been cool.

That was then.

[unstuck]

That was then.

So people only started to be BAD when money was invented?

[mashman]

So people only started to be BAD when money was invented?

As Scuba_Steve says, it was just 1 more thing added to the list and one that has come back to bite a awful lot of people with a vengeance. I, fortunately, am not one of those that were bitten, but I know what that feels like and see it as an unnecessary and avoidable part of living.

[bogan]

Do you have proof to say otherwise? That douchebaggery or nationalism or hoarding already exists, the main difference being that those in poverty, hungry, wanting further education, wanting healthcare etc... would have it available to them. That's several plus's in my book.

And as I pointed out at the start of the thread, there is no indicative, just people with concerns that they decide to concern themselves with. In my case, I've gone for concerning myself with trying a solution that affects everything. Most of it will be for the better, the rest, well we'd have to wait and see ad deal with that. As I have said, I'm not looking for nirvana/utopia, just something better and that is achievable. NOTHING WILL CHANGE IN THE SHORT-TERM. We're already altruistic, we just need the environment to show it.

Not all people have a say at the moment. So no difference there.

What percentage of bankers, accountants, and financially related people would be capable of turning their hand to something else? Because there's an awful lot of people in those jobs that are qualified to be mathematicians, rocket scientists, biochemist etc... and as there weren't any jobs in those fields, they've thrown themselves into something different. So no need to remove anyone from any existing projects, unless of course the project is finding the best cup of tea or designing weapons of destruction or highly inefficient hydrogen engines to take into disaster zones etc...

I never claimed it as fact, so why do I need proof?

"We're already altruistic, we just need the environment to show it." Fuck I wish, now there is that nativity I was talking about earlier, those wizards will be busy casting their altruism spells.

Not all but a hell of a lot more than a dictator committee size do, so definitely a difference there.

I'd assume a lot of those would go straight into the resource management area, which if anything is going to need more people to do a proper job without market driven forces at work, or at least more wizards. What is it you have against Tea? this seems a good example of the dictator commitee, why should you decide we should all drink run of the mill tea? and you'd sell our future down the river by disarming us again aliens or meteors? hamper us disaster recovery efforts? I don't like this dictator committee, can I get a different one?

[mashman]

So people only started to be BAD when money was invented?

My turn. Has your financial system stopped war?

[ducatilover]

No but there was 1 less thing to beat da shit outta each other over/for

Humans are selfish by nature, it's part of being an animal and having survival instincts. So they probably beat each other up for not bartering/giving gobbies for their new stone mallet

[ducatilover]

My turn. Has your financial system stopped war?

Fuck me, Unstuck made the financial system?

[MisterD]

In what way? and why won't it work?

Who decides how resources are allocated? Mr Farmer produces a limited amount of grain and maybe a limited amount of milk, who decides what proportion of land to use for the production of each? What happens if there isn't enough grain, or there is too much?

What's to stop me setting up as a baker, even though there's not enough grain to use, or there's too much bread made already? I can still take my car to the mechanic and expect it to be fixed?

Please explain how, in the absence of a market and variable values of resources and production, we can replace the price signals that take care of this stuff for us at the moment.

[mashman]

I never claimed it as fact, so why do I need proof?

"We're already altruistic, we just need the environment to show it." Fuck I wish, now there is that nativity I was talking about earlier, those wizards will be busy casting their altruism spells.

Not all but a hell of a lot more than a dictator committee size do, so definitely a difference there.

I'd assume a lot of those would go straight into the resource management area, which if anything is going to need more people to do a proper job without market driven forces at work, or at least more wizards. What is it you have against Tea? this seems a good example of the dictator commitee, why should you decide we should all drink run of the mill tea? and you'd sell our future down the river by disarming us again aliens or meteors? hamper us disaster recovery efforts? I don't like this dictator committee, can I get a different one?

Yet you deny it on the same basis. How very unscientific of you.

Funny, I thought Chch proved the exact opposite. As do many random acts of kindness that we perform on any given day.

Again, proof please?

You can assume all you like, but given that they are individuals, they'll likely make their own minds up where their time would be best served. Perhaps they'll augment the current body of researchers in the fields in which they were trained, ya know, the ones they couldn't find jobs in. I only mentioned Tea once and it was pout forwards by someone else regarding millions of $ being, ahem, poured in to research, and for what? It's indicative of the resource and financial waste society produces. In a system that relies on money to feed and cloth people, I think there are more important things than tea... but then poverty isn't on your radar, neither is the housing shortage (which "my" system could provide quite easily), neither is healthcare, or education or any of those other things that actually make a societea. You're too focussed on there being a committee and not what it can achieve. I said "designing weapons of destruction", not protection. Man them blinkers are well and truly glued on there

[Voltaire]

Hitler could not have been too impressed with Mussolini as he could play the violin and speak English, French and German too, very Tory
Mind you Hitler was a Vegetarian who could not drive......makes him more a greeny.