Occupy Kiwi Biker Movement

[mashman]

But the ones who are getting butt fucked by others as you put it, have choices too. Nobody has to stay oppressed or victimized, it is a choice, maybe an unconscious choice, but a choice non the less.

Being butt fucked and knowing you're being butt fucked are two entirely different things. Meanwhile all the hours people spend not focussing on "self-healing" are being spent keeping the wolf from the door. Doing it with a smile of their faces will only see them being butt fucked even more. Yup they could do it, but then what? they're happy about being butt fucked?

Of course 'poverty' will still exist - some will be greedy and grab all they can (and hold onto it until there's a shortage) and the meek'n'weak will miss out - hell, even chimps are greedy and will take more than they need.

(I don't know why I even bother with this thread - being on it is like pissing in the snow - it feels good signing your name in yellow snow but it shortly disappears and nothing's been achieved and nobody else will notice)

And this would happen because this is what you would do? They'll look like right dickheads when the expiry dates pass and there's still more to hoard.

Meh... it broadens the mind

It's all or nothing poverty, either nobody is poor or everyone is, and since you're yet to produce a wizard I very much think it would fall in the latter category.

Nah, wizards can cover that shit too I'm sure.

Nope, only those contributing less than they take would be effectively taking handouts and wellfare, the rest would be providing them.

It's good to have a rollback plan. On the voting thing, the way I see it going down, everyone votes, the bludgers form the majority core of your votes but other join in to give enough to pass it. The higher earners and those of high productivity (but not all of course) then say fuck this lark, I'm taking my money overseas and leave. Now you have a less productive population trying to produce more with only national incentives (ie, on a personal level people can just say, nah, let someone else do it). Of course the more likely outcome will simply be china who by that times owns about 47% of NZ just goes 'the fuck you doing with our property?' and drops troops then annexes the whole country, yay! now we are communists right? China has fuck all poverty so we'll be fine

Even with every resource that a person needs at their finger tips free of charge no strings attached?

current evidence would highlight the opposite.

WHAT? Don't bring your value system into something where it isn't required. Food is produced to be eaten irrespective of effort.

Yup, those who believe they have something to lose might leave... but who's going to buy their shit? Perhaps those coming in who see the value in living that way? Perhaps those who can't get their ideas off the ground because of financial constraint or get grants for their research? Why so negative on the fucktards leaving as they were never here to make NZ/ better in the first place, no loss in my eyes. Why would the Chinese utter "the fuck you doing with out property?"? It'll still be there's to look after.

[bogan]

Even with every resource that a person needs at their finger tips free of charge no strings attached?

current evidence would highlight the opposite.

WHAT? Don't bring your value system into something where it isn't required. Food is produced to be eaten irrespective of effort.

Yup, those who believe they have something to lose might leave... but who's going to buy their shit? Perhaps those coming in who see the value in living that way? Perhaps those who can't get their ideas off the ground because of financial constraint or get grants for their research? Why so negative on the fucktards leaving as they were never here to make NZ/ better in the first place, no loss in my eyes. Why would the Chinese utter "the fuck you doing with out property?"? It'll still be there's to look after.

Exactly, how long would the resources last in such a system? longer than one with strings attached? how about if productivity took a massive dive in your system?

Well I'm yet to see an actual wizard intervene so the current evidence is irrelevant.

Yeh, silly me, that pig flying passed my window just dropped me off some bacon with no human effort involved at all fucks sake mashman, do try and make sense will you.

The rest of the world, hell unless your society wants to give up a lot of consumer devices, it'll still have to trade with such people. Because the chinese have invested in that property, they would probably like to see some returns...

[scumdog]

And this would happen because this is what you would do? They'll look like right dickheads when the expiry dates pass and there's still more to hoard.

Meh... it broadens the mind .

No, I just deal with different people to the ones you seem to have had experience with, not all people are as nice and altruistic as you think (or would like).

And not EVERYTHING has an expiry date eh, - but you know that too eh...

[mashman]

Exactly, how long would the resources last in such a system? longer than one with strings attached? how about if productivity took a massive dive in your system?

Well I'm yet to see an actual wizard intervene so the current evidence is irrelevant.

Yeh, silly me, that pig flying passed my window just dropped me off some bacon with no human effort involved at all fucks sake mashman, do try and make sense will you.

The rest of the world, hell unless your society wants to give up a lot of consumer devices, it'll still have to trade with such people. Because the chinese have invested in that property, they would probably like to see some returns...

The resources will last just as long, maybe even longer. Why wouldn't they? Why would productivity take a massive nose dive? And how would that be any different in the system that you favour?

In which case see my definition of wizard, coz you're using the wrong one.

Where did I say that no human effort would be involved?

Just because the internal economy runs without a financial system, doesn't mean that goods produced and imported into NZ won't have a financial value outwith its borders. But as you're struggling with the notion of how it'll work internally, I'd rather not boggle your mind any further with the interaction between NZ and the financial economy that the rest of the world will be using... until they follow NZ's example that is . Having said that, here's one I prepared earlieror indeed the forerunner with slightly more and less detail.

No, I just deal with different people to the ones you seem to have had experience with, not all people are as nice and altruistic as you think (or would like).

And not EVERYTHING has an expiry date eh, - but you know that too eh...

I lived in amongst them in Glasgow for 6 years. Perhaps that's not enough experience for ya... and as it turns out they're just regular folk that help each other out on a regular basis. So whilst your external view looks all messy like, the view from inside is somewhat different.

Aye... but hey, we were talking about poverty so I was thinking more along the lines of necessities... which there will be plenty of, because there currently is. Why go and hoard when you know that there is, as there has always been, more than enough.

[unstuck]

Being butt fucked and knowing you're being butt fucked are two entirely different things. Meanwhile all the hours people spend not focussing on "self-healing" are being spent keeping the wolf from the door. Doing it with a smile of their faces will only see them being butt fucked even more. Yup they could do it, but then what? they're happy about being butt fucked?.

Im pretty sure I would know if I was getting buttfucked, even a little bit. But then thats why self awareness is such a wonderful thing, so maybe teaching self awareness would be the way to go. Then they would realize there is no wolf at the door. Some people seem to be happy getting buttfucked, more power to them in that case, to each his own and all that.

[unstuck]

No, I just deal with different people to the ones you seem to have had experience with, not all people are as nice and altruistic as you think (or would like).

And not EVERYTHING has an expiry date eh, - but you know that too eh...

Shouldn't you be out arresting pot smoking punk rockers and the like.

[mashman]

Im pretty sure I would know if I was getting buttfucked, even a little bit. But then thats why self awareness is such a wonderful thing, so maybe teaching self awareness would be the way to go. Then they would realize there is no wolf at the door. Some people seem to be happy getting buttfucked, more power to them in that case, to each his own and all that.

Can you live of nothing more than a gingko leaf and universe juice? or do you need food and water like the rest of us? Perhaps those with kids, who actually care about them that is, have more of a concern for them than to sit thinking happy happy thoughts, surviving on love and not so healthy food. Sometimes it's harder than it needs to be and everyone should be catered for.

[unstuck]

Can you live of nothing more than a gingko leaf and universe juice? or do you need food and water like the rest of us? Perhaps those with kids, who actually care about them that is, have more of a concern for them than to sit thinking happy happy thoughts, surviving on love and not so healthy food. Sometimes it's harder than it needs to be and everyone should be catered for.

My life style is such now that I can pretty much live off fuck all, I only have to earn $240 a week to pay the bills, and I can do that in a day easy peasy.
My kids have turned out pretty fucken awesome too, somehow.
Happy happy thoughts will get you more abundance than working like a slave in a job that makes you unhappy. Poverty is a state of mind, so is abundance.

[bogan]

The resources will last just as long, maybe even longer. Why wouldn't they? Why would productivity take a massive nose dive? And how would that be any different in the system that you favour?

In which case see my definition of wizard, coz you're using the wrong one.

Where did I say that no human effort would be involved?

Just because the internal economy runs without a financial system, doesn't mean that goods produced and imported into NZ won't have a financial value outwith its borders. But as you're struggling with the notion of how it'll work internally, I'd rather not boggle your mind any further with the interaction between NZ and the financial economy that the rest of the world will be using... until they follow NZ's example that is . Having said that, here's one I prepared earlieror indeed the forerunner with slightly more and less detail.

Greed, with no checks to how fast people consume them, faster consumption is an option. With no direct relationship between an individual's productivity and an individuals entitlement, there becomes less motivation for an individual to work. Sure you can wave it away as wizards will make sure people are now altruistic, but that justification is not good enough for me. In the current system both are addressed.

Who was it that first brought up the term wizard? What I mean is you need actual magic to make this shit work.

"Food is produced to be eaten irrespective of effort." Which to me sounds like food production gets done without effort...

You asked who would buy their shit (I assumed the shit they would produce in other parts of the world), so... the rest of the world will! Or do you mean that you'll kick off the whole society with a market crash 'fuck you' to those opting out by not letting them sell their current shit?

[Ocean1]

So you claim that poverty will still exist in "my" society? irrespective of everything being made available to everyone free of charge?

There will always be poor. Always has been, no matter the economic paradigms in place.

At no time in history have the poor had access to the resources they do now, evidence that the current system you rant about has it righter than any other in history. Yet you say they're suffering, they need more and it's all our fault.

Poor isn't caused by inequity of earnings, it's just a symptom of low performance, and the more you reward it the lower it gets. You need to fix the cause, not the symptom.

[Smifffy]

The free market actually worked very well, and the drongos that speculated wildly and bought and sold non-existent assets were in for a well-deserved shellacking. The big problem arose when the world's govt's and their cronies decided to abandon free market ideals and intervene by way of a bailout, then bailed out the self-same drongos that market darwinism had determined should go the way of the dinosaur. The drongos continue merrily along.

It's likely that if the market was left to its devices, the bank manager would have come to me looking for a loan. Admittedly my house would be worth a lot less if that happened, so would most of the ones in Auckland, and there'd be no outcry about housing affordability.

[unstuck]

You need to fix the cause, not the symptom.

[unstuck]

[scumdog]

There will always be poor. Always has been, no matter the economic paradigms in place.
Poor isn't caused by inequity of earnings, it's just a symptom of low performance, and the more you reward it the lower it gets. You need to fix the cause, not the symptom.

A certain amount of poverty is caused by lazy-arse not wanting to get off their butt and contribute/do anything.

Any society is going to have those.

Holding their hand out constantly expecting 'somebody' to give them what they need. (want?)

[mashman]

My life style is such now that I can pretty much live off fuck all, I only have to earn $240 a week to pay the bills, and I can do that in a day easy peasy.
My kids have turned out pretty fucken awesome too, somehow.
Happy happy thoughts will get you more abundance than working like a slave in a job that makes you unhappy. Poverty is a state of mind, so is abundance.

So when did you find your faith?

Greed, with no checks to how fast people consume them, faster consumption is an option. With no direct relationship between an individual's productivity and an individuals entitlement, there becomes less motivation for an individual to work. Sure you can wave it away as wizards will make sure people are now altruistic, but that justification is not good enough for me. In the current system both are addressed.

Who was it that first brought up the term wizard? What I mean is you need actual magic to make this shit work.

"Food is produced to be eaten irrespective of effort." Which to me sounds like food production gets done without effort...

You asked who would buy their shit (I assumed the shit they would produce in other parts of the world), so... the rest of the world will! Or do you mean that you'll kick off the whole society with a market crash 'fuck you' to those opting out by not letting them sell their current shit?

Waddaya mean no checks? Who said anything about no checks? Ohhhhhhh I see, you're correlating the motivational factor for going to work is money and deciding that without it no one would work. People's motivations change and it would seem a little false to write off what they are capable of because you don't see how they could ever do anything that wasn't for themselves. You have been taught well. In the current system it also drives people to murder and commit violent crimes... but I guess that's ok huh?

You asked me if there were wizards, I said yes and defined what a wizard was.

I can see why it would look that way, but it was meant as effort that they put in outwith food production. My bad.

You didn't read the links did you, coz at least one of those questions is answered. if you're above to bail from NZ, who is going to buy your shit so that you can leave with money and start afresh in a brave old world?

There will always be poor. Always has been, no matter the economic paradigms in place.

At no time in history have the poor had access to the resources they do now, evidence that the current system you rant about has it righter than any other in history. Yet you say they're suffering, they need more and it's all our fault.

Poor isn't caused by inequity of earnings, it's just a symptom of low performance, and the more you reward it the lower it gets. You need to fix the cause, not the symptom.

You've had your 2000+ years. You've failed billions of people who are in poverty. There simply aren't enough jobs, let alone well paying ones. Yet you call performance related pay.