ESE's works engine tuner

[Sketchy_Racer]

Or as I tried to tell one customer - "there ain't no shortcuts"....
Thanks for your PM - I've not forgotten to answer - just working through a few ideas before I reply...

Another subject - any of you guys found a way to machine a combustion chamber "nicely" ?
I have knocked up a couple of tools to machine squish & chamber - if anyone's interested - I've taken a couple of photos - I know it looks crap - but it was reasonably cheap to make - and it does the job reasonably accurately - I've posted them on my website if you want to take a look...

http://www.maplesigns.co.uk/photogal...lbum=29&page=1

Any suggestions for improvements gratefully received - or if you've found a better way...(at minimal cost)
Cheers - Gordon.

The way you have set it up is the best solution for making accurate curves on a manual lathe. You might see some improvements from increasing tool rigidity but apart from going to CNC control there is no other suitable methods I can think of.

Nice work!

Cheers,

-Sketchy

[dmcca]

I am all for raising the exhaust duct floor, but why do it only as revs increase?

After a couple of scotch's the other night my thought was that at lower rpm (below the tuned range of the pipe) the higher floor and therefore smaller volume duct might further increase the negative impacts of the pipe... so i pondered whether there would be any benefit in altering the floor height to influence this... but now that the scotch has worn off and ive thought more about it ive realised that a very clever person has already invented the ATAC system to achieve the same result with less complexity.

[Frits Overmars]

After a couple of scotch's the other night my thought was that at lower rpm (below the tuned range of the pipe) the higher floor and therefore smaller volume duct might further increase the negative impacts of the pipe...

Now I can understand your line of thought. Must be good stuff you're drinkin.

[TZ350]

Would you mind posting your question to Billy and his reply ?

Here is the MNZ RR Commissioners reply to my two questions.

Hi Rob,

Answer number 1 is,Yes it would be classed as a watercooled engine so therefore could be no bigger than 100cc.

Answer number 2, I see no reason why an auxillary engine could not be petrol powered provided it is at the front of the engine,Therefore not forcing induction in any way and it is in no way powering the machine.

Hope this clarifies these issues for you.
Cheers Billy

On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 4:25 PM, .... wrote:

Hi Billy
I need your help with this.
A while back I asked for clarification on two points for F4/F5 (Buckets) I know your busy but this is a very competitive class where people at the pointy end invest a lot of thinking outside the box and development effort into their bikes and these points are important to me.

(Q1) Is an air cooled still an air cooled when you use water injection into the inlet manifold as a detonation supresent?

Solo motorcycles shall have two engine capacity classes:
F4 2 stroke 55-100cc
2 stroke 55-125cc air cooled
4 stroke 55-150cc

(Q2) Independently (battery) powered accessories like water pumps have been accepted on Buckets for a long time. I would like to use an independently powered accessory (fan) driven by a small petrol motor for air cooling . The question is if battery powered accessories are OK because they cant move the bike on their own then is a petrol powered accessory (leaf blower) that can't move the bike on its own equally OK.

Many Thanks
Rob
MNZ Race Licence Number 2188

[Flettner]

Wow, so, on a wet day with water induction ( raining ) you are in fact illegal. ??
Billy, are these your ideas or are you looking at the FIM rule book?

[kel]

re the port under the exhaust port, how would this port be orientated?

I was having a look at the pit-lane thread the other day as I was looking for the RSA head details as posted by Frits, and I stumbled on discussion re raising exhaust port floor and adding an extra transfer duct. As always its been done before -

Jan Thiel
"Yes, I did that in 1974, without success!
At Aprilia I had a cylinder cast, in 2007, with the underside of the exhaust raised to the level of the upper
transfer port height.
It was my intention to lower this until the power became good.
But when I realized that I would be retired when the cylinder would be plated I abandoned it, and had it
CNC machined to 'normal'
A pity!"
For more click here http://www.pit-lane.biz/t117p900-gp1...-part-1-locked

Thank goodness the best arent constrained by others.
Innovators, inspirers, leaders


But wait theres more - also from Pit-Lane
SAE paper 2006-32-0061

[husaberg]

Here is the MNZ RR Commissioners reply to my two questions.

(Q2) Independently (battery) powered accessories like water pumps have been accepted on Buckets for a long time. I would like to use an independently powered accessory (fan) driven by a small petrol motor for air cooling . The question is if battery powered accessories are OK because they cant move the bike on their own then is a petrol powered accessory (leaf blower) that can't move the bike on its own equally OK.
Hi Rob,

Answer number 1 is,Yes it would be classed as a watercooled engine so therefore could be no bigger than 100cc.

Answer number 2, I see no reason why an auxillary engine could not be petrol powered provided it is at the front of the engine,Therefore not forcing induction in any way and it is in no way powering the machine.

Hope this clarifies these issues for you.
Cheers Billy

Wow i find that response illogical, as the petrol powered device is powering a fan which is in turn powering the engines cooling system. and is petrol powered therefor is adding to the engines total cylinder capacity.
On the other side of the coin it will also free up all the rules like why use precious engine or battery power or engine power to charge to run an alternator to power ancillaries such as water pumps and electrical generators, oil pumps,fuel pumps, crankshafts etc. Valves can be converted to pneumatic etc and powered by an ancillary engine as well then. I wonder how long it is before the other classes catch on...........

Actually why does it need to be petrol powered? those scale aircraft glow engines would be lighter..........

[wobbly]

You can do all of that now - here is the electric water pump on the Pre 82 Junior - Frepin400.

[husaberg]

You can do all of that now - here is the electric water pump on the Pre 82 Junior - Frepin400.

http://www.bdkraceeng.co.uk/Electric...0Pump%201.html

Compare two cooling systems, A and B. In system B the water flows three times as fast and picks up only half the amount of heat per liter, compared to system A.
Then system B removes 50% more heat than system A! And provided your piston clearance is OK, you just cannot have too much cooling. In the Aprilia RSA125 the water pump circulates 160 liter per minute. That is 3 liter per HP per minute!

Nowadays we have a fine solution for avoiding corrosion; it's called plastic. Saves weight too.

I don't know exactly how the NZ dollar is doing, but that sum will probably buy you two of these:
http://www.hvg-engineering.com/index...id=127&lang=NL

what actually is the actual total draw in watts to run the ignition and charge the battery on your slave ignition dyno system Wob?

[Ocean1]

Another subject - any of you guys found a way to machine a combustion chamber "nicely" ?

Any suggestions for improvements gratefully received - or if you've found a better way...(at minimal cost)
Cheers - Gordon.

Some lathes, (Colchesters for one) have a pair of tapped service plate holes low on the front face of the tailstock and, at the same height on the tailstock side of the cross-slide.

You can mount clevis plates to these, and a tie-rod between them. You can make several tie-rods of different lengths, and you can make them length adjustable.

By locking the tailstock and engaging the cross-feed you get an exact radius cut at a controlled feed rate. Makes for a better finish than even an experienced hand fed example.

One thing to watch: you can't get too close to "TDC" on the tie-rod, it'll put too much load on the whole assembly. And yes, a more robust tool would minimise chatter/harmonics. Lots of top rake for aluminium.

[speedpro]

Originally my sidecar had an electric fuel pump and water pump powered by a battery. I converted to a vacuum fuel pump but left the water pump electric. On my MB100LC engine the water pump is electric but happens to be powered by the generator. I don't really see the difference between an electric water pump and a petrol powered fan to force air over fins. Both are cooling systems where the cooling medium is moved by an external power source.
I 100% disagree with the idea that water injection provides any sort of measureable engine cooling and would love to read about that.
About the battery versus generator debate - A battery is heavy, generally more than a generator, but does not absorb power from the prime motivator, as minimal as that would be. If there is a difference it would be only measureable in a lab surely.
As usual I expect bucket racers will continue doing exactly what we want to with a good dose of common sense.

[Frits Overmars]

I 100% disagree with the idea that water injection provides any sort of measureable engine cooling and would love to read about that.

Here you go: http://www.pit-lane.biz/t1666p90-tec...es-boat-engine

A battery is heavy, generally more than a generator, but does not absorb power from the prime motivator, as minimal as that would be. If there is a difference it would be only measureable in a lab surely.

If you can make such a statement just like that, then who still needs a lab? Or a test bench?
A crankshaft-driven cooling fan will absorb over 1 HP, so if you are allowed to drive that fan through an auxiliary engine, you have an unfair (in my opinion) advantage of over 1 HP.
If you take a look at model airplanes, you'll find 4 HP motors that you can hold in the palm of your hand. They could drive a huge cooling fan. Or a blower connected to the inlet system. And what about converting the engine's flywheel generator into an electric motor and hooking it up to a battery pack hidden somewhere in the frame? Batteries are getting lighter and smaller all the time and sooner or later it will become necessary to regulate the amount of battery energy you are allowed to start with.

As usual I expect bucket racers will continue doing exactly what we want to with a good dose of common sense.

I sincerely hope so. But you cannot rule out the existence of black sheep...

[speedpro]

Fair comments. I don't see in that link where it mentions cooling the "engine".
A 1hp fan is going to draw a bit of current and I can't see any commonly used battery supplying the power required for the time required, generally, which leaves the fan attached to the crank, OR powered separately as Rob is thinking of.
The newer LiFe batteries are pretty good I must admit, as evidenced by the performance of the electric models flying at the airfield next to the Tokoroa kart track when we've raced there. A small light electric motor providing that sort of power all loaded up and not ripping through the air at 70+mph for cooling would have a shortened life as well I would think. As far as storing generator power goes you don't need a battery just a good ol' capacitor, like I'm already using.
It's all theoretical of course as it hasn't been done yet.

[husaberg]

Fair comments. I don't see in that link where it mentions cooling the "engine".
A 1hp fan is going to draw a bit of current and I can't see any commonly used battery supplying the power required for the time required, generally, which leaves the fan attached to the crank, OR powered separately as Rob is thinking of.
The newer LiFe batteries are pretty good I must admit, as evidenced by the performance of the electric models flying at the airfield next to the Tokoroa kart track when we've raced there. A small light electric motor providing that sort of power all loaded up and not ripping through the air at 70+mph for cooling would have a shortened life as well I would think. As far as storing generator power goes you don't need a battery just a good ol' capacitor, like I'm already using.
It's all theoretical of course as it hasn't been done yet.

A 1 hp Fan will as you say draw at lest 1 hp from the engine powering it probably a fair bit more...... as you say a battery wont last long.........And there's the rub.
I posted a while back how much the VW coling fan absorbs, but i can't be arsed looking for it........but it was a fair bit of HP.
Even if Billy says he can't see an issue, i do, it doesn't add up.
SO i don't quite agree the with the theory on the losses being tiny esp for a power greedy fan rather than a water pump.....
for instance try turning the lights or air con on an older car without the stepper controlled idle (or why they have stepper control on the idle..)
Also muse why cars now have electric fans and viscous coupling fans.

PS Frits was talking of glow aircraft engines rather than electric ones i guess.

Hats off to billy for making a considered opinion but i don't think he quite considered the possible ramifications in regards to a controlled cylinder capacity liquid vs air cooled class correctly.
i wonder what would happen if Honda turned up at Moto GP with an Auxiliary petrol engine. I do have to wonder what would the FIM say?

PS Wob you must dust off that engine and send down, i am taking some time off work soon.

[rgvbaz]

Well I'd been looking out for the latest issue to see how they are doing (mag takes months to get to NZ so we're out of date - yeah yeah)

Ran to 106mph on the dyno at 12,000 which I think was well past their peak power. Net result so far; 87mph but unable to hold 6th gear. They had jetted down a step to try improve (where they got 87) & it nipped up. Apparently was just getting too hot between runs & not jetting fault.

I'd argue that aircooled bike is petrol cooled & it has to run that bigger than optimum jet.

Either way they are cleaning it up & rechecking on the dyno so we have to wait another month (unless we get a spoiler from overseas guys). They will try gear it down if they can't pull 6th this time. Frankly I think it was crazy they didn't have a range of gearing for a top speed attempt on a Tiddler.

I still predict 92mph. I am not trying to knock them, it is a good effort & the bike looks great for what it is, true to the original idea rather than a liner attempt (they drafted a kid to ride it). I just think a bigger carb & some more revs would have helped their cause somewhat.



[edit] July issue, just looked on site & Aug issue advertised so we're not that far behind, but no mention of it in blurb.

Last issue I saw they retested and got it to 95mph but it wouldn't pull 6th. They are getting a non-standard size sprocket machined to try and get the gearing right. The next issue should be out here soon!

Cheers

Dave