MotoGP 2014

[merv]

The 800cc lump the great little Aussie Stoner won the 2007 championship on may not have quite been as big and heavy in the wrong place as the current 1000, but then Stoner still rode that 800 better than anyone else including, to Stoner's delight, Rossi.

[pritch]

The motor has too bigger vee and cant be moved forward enough to put enough weight on the front.

That theory pretty much went out the window when Honda released the fact that their engine is a 90 degree V.

I think the problem lies with the Ducati engine/gearbox unit being too long overall. Somebody posted a theory that the drive sprocket on the Ducati is too far toward the rear of the bike making it handle like a chopper compared to the others. At the time I was impressed by that argument and have seen nothing since to dissuade me.

It would seem that changes have been made to just about everything except the location of the gearbox, and the complaints remain consistent, even to the extent of Crutchlow losing the front end during his first test sessions.

Here's hoping they can fix it, we need them to be competitive. Marlboro must be getting impatient.

[carbonhed]

Sam Lowes does well in first Moto2 test. 7th and 0.4 off leader Luthi.

http://motomatters.com/results/2013/...MotoMatters%29

[husaberg]

That theory pretty much went out the window when Honda released the fact that their engine is a 90 degree V.

I think the problem lies with the Ducati engine/gearbox unit being too long overall. Somebody posted a theory that the drive sprocket on the Ducati is too far toward the rear of the bike making it handle like a chopper compared to the others. At the time I was impressed by that argument and have seen nothing since to dissuade me.

It would seem that changes have been made to just about everything except the location of the gearbox, and the complaints remain consistent, even to the extent of Crutchlow losing the front end during his first test sessions.

Here's hoping they can fix it, we need them to be competitive. Marlboro must be getting impatient.

To my mind the Honda mass "regardless of the V angle" seems further forward its like they sacrificed frontal area to achieve it.
The Ducati appears to slimmer in profile at the expense of the mass distribution. this is odd to me asp with their SBK experiance(the Ducati 916 series were wide to achieve better distribution (lots of junk at the front)
The Honda engine i would assume is more compact as well.

For Ducati the carbon frame did not allow any cutting and shutting which is why most GP bikes have avoided it.
Cagiva's 500 gp bikes abandoned it for that very reason.

Oh according to this it is further back. Honda VS Ducati

[Mental Trousers]

That theory pretty much went out the window when Honda released the fact that their engine is a 90 degree V.

I think the problem lies with the Ducati engine/gearbox unit being too long overall. Somebody posted a theory that the drive sprocket on the Ducati is too far toward the rear of the bike making it handle like a chopper compared to the others. At the time I was impressed by that argument and have seen nothing since to dissuade me.

It would seem that changes have been made to just about everything except the location of the gearbox, and the complaints remain consistent, even to the extent of Crutchlow losing the front end during his first test sessions.

Here's hoping they can fix it, we need them to be competitive. Marlboro must be getting impatient.

Honda created a proper V4 engine for their bikes whereas Ducati's is more of an L shape, so it's longer and lower. Also, Honda's gearbox is a completely different, more compact layout and by the looks of things might actually be slightly underneath the engine rather than behind it like Ducati's is. So the Ducati's drive sprocket is further toward the rear than the Honda (and Yamaha), leading to a shorter swingarm which is less than ideal.

The sprocket being further rearward is an indication that the design and weight distribution isn't right.

[pritch]

Have had a look for the original article but don't think I have found it, but I did find this which touches on the drive sprocket placement.
http://www.motocorse.com/news/manzia...s…ENG_VERS.php

Also came across a Ducati owners site where the consensus seemed to be the the Ducati needs a more compact angine/gearbox and the drive sprocket needs to move forward. So while none of us may be qualified, there is at least a consensus of sorts among the fans. I wonder if the Ducati engineers share it.

[Drew]

Have had a look for the original article but don't think I have found it, but I did find this which touches on the drive sprocket placement.
http://www.motocorse.com/news/manzia...s…ENG_VERS.php

Also came across a Ducati owners site where the consensus seemed to be the the Ducati needs a more compact angine/gearbox and the drive sprocket needs to move forward. So while none of us may be qualified, there is at least a consensus of sorts among the fans. I wonder if the Ducati engineers share it.

But fuck, the guy's writing is terrible!

I think he knows what he's talking about, I know he doesn't know how to express it properly in the written word...Yeah yeah, I'm a hypocrite.

[Tony.OK]

But fuck, the guy's writing is terrible!

I think he knows what he's talking about, I know he doesn't know how to express it properly in the written word...Yeah yeah, I'm a hypocrite.

Look down the bottom of the page ya numpty.............."I'd like to thank William Adam for the translation"

[Mental Trousers]

Cool, thanks for the pritch

Have had a look for the original article but don't think I have found it, but I did find this which touches on the drive sprocket placement.
http://www.motocorse.com/news/manzia...0;ENG_VERS.php

Also came across a Ducati owners site where the consensus seemed to be the the Ducati needs a more compact angine/gearbox and the drive sprocket needs to move forward. So while none of us may be qualified, there is at least a consensus of sorts among the fans. I wonder if the Ducati engineers share it.

Here's the key part about the sprocket location

In both bikes, Honda and Yamaha, it is apparent that the front sprocket and consequently the secondary drive shaft is positioned almost exactly in the middle of the bike's wheelbase, evidently indicating that if the two Japanese manufacturers had converged to this position, this constant was a fixed sign of a good balance of the engine within the frame.

That's it exactly. With the sprocket in the centre of the wheel base the engines weight is forward of that centrepoint. With the Ducati the sprocket is rearward of that centrepoint so the engines weight is closer to the centre of the wheelbase.

Sprocket location is a symptom of where the engines weight is within the frame.

(Problems relating to the frame's contribution to the ride characteristics are another important issue in terms of stiffness/flexibility which play an important role but the bike must first have a good equilibrium in terms of weight distribution)

That bit explains why pissing around with all the different frames isn't the answer, the weight distribution has to be right first.

[pritch]

But fuck, the guy's writing is terrible!

I think he knows what he's talking about, I know he doesn't know how to express it properly in the written word...Yeah yeah, I'm a hypocrite.

His writing in Italian is probably great, the item has been translated - badly.

[pritch]

Nice.
http://www.wrenchracer.com/1/category/all/1.html

[BMWST?]

Ducati didn't listen to Rossi. The motor has too bigger vee and cant be moved forward enough to put enough weight on the front. With the electronics now days most bikes are equal on acceleration so time has to be made up on corner entry. They want to stay with what they have for marketing purposes, as we all know a motogp bike is similar to what we can buy.

you are aware the honda a 90 deg v four?

[Drew]

Look down the bottom of the page ya numpty.............."I'd like to thank William Adam for the translation"

His writing in Italian is probably great, the item has been translated - badly.

Oh right. Makes sense.

[onearmedbandit]

It amazes me that everyone apart from Ducati know what the problem is...

[Drew]

It amazes me that everyone apart from Ducati know what the problem is...

It might surprise me, but for the fact that they do have a history of continuing with failed shit.

Penigale for instance, with it's two piece frame. It does see the end of one of their fuck ups though, in that they have put a wet clutch in it.